Is this the industial method of mass soldering or cheapo way??

[Simon]

oh no it's official, the English people are the coldest on the planet, we are having a social ice age here, find new friends has been VERY hard even with the help of social clubs (Rotaract), as for rain it rains in Italy as much as it does in the UK now and the weather is as variable (global warming is after all global)

[Mechatrommer]

man! there is really no more talking on mass soldering. i'm planning to build my own hot plate/oven controllable temp profile through arduino as a cheaper way for my own "home" mass soldering/reflow.
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/tutorial_info.php?tutorials_id=59&page=

or even the automatic paste dispenser (if i got time and need):


sorry to interrupt your "intimate" conversation pals

[Simon]

Yea getting back to topic after a lovely digression.

How do they mass solder SMD parts ? and how do they do both ?

[jahonen]

Yea getting back to topic after a lovely digression.

How do they mass solder SMD parts ? and how do they do both ?

If there are only SMD components, then it is usually a reflow process. First, paste is put through stencil and then pick and place machine places components. Then the board is reflowed in oven. If there are both through-hole and SMD components (SMDs on one side only), SMD components are usually assembled using previously mentioned process. Then after the board has cooled down, through hole components are placed and the board is wave soldered (like shown in video in start post of this topic) from bottom side. In civilized countries boards are not manually dipped in solder but soldered using a machine. It is also possible to wave solder SMD components but only ones with loose pitch, like SO's, passives or discretes. In that case, one must glue the SMD's to bottom of the board so that they will stick to the board during wave soldering process. This glue is dispensed in same way than soldering paste.

There are of course variations of these processes, like "paste-in-hole" (where you can actually solder a through-hole components with reflow). If there are dense pitch components or BGAs in both sides of the board, then two sided reflow process is a necessity.

Regards,
Janne

[Simon]

so you can stick the SMD parts in molten solder and it won't affect them ?

[jahonen]

so you can stick the SMD parts in molten solder and it won't affect them ?

Yes, as long as the temperature profile is respected, i.e. not too long in hot solder. There are also restrictions how many times components will survive the soldering thermal cycle. That can be a limitation if you need to do more than one reflow.

Regards,
Janne

[Simon]

and would another method be putting solder past on the board, placing the part on it and blowing hot air over to melt the solder ?

[ThunderSqueak]

I had a few of my tech's not believe me about how people treat women in my field.  roughly 90% of the clients (both male and female), will turn and talk to a male tech(or even the janitor) if they walk out after I have been answering questions.  I can continue answering, but they wont even look at me, and will phrase the questions towards the male tech.

This is an issue with your male tech's. Can you train them to direct the people back to you, instead of answering?

They actually do direct the conversation back AND remain quiet, the issue is just the way American culture works.  

and now back to the topic :>


A reflow toaster    refloaster 

[Simon]

I had a few of my tech's not believe me about how people treat women in my field.  roughly 90% of the clients (both male and female), will turn and talk to a male tech(or even the janitor) if they walk out after I have been answering questions.  I can continue answering, but they wont even look at me, and will phrase the questions towards the male tech.

This is an issue with your male tech's. Can you train them to direct the people back to you, instead of answering?

 

and now back to the topic :>


A reflow toaster    refloaster 

Back to topic ? which of the four topics ? ah yes soldering, yea great name for it, I think I'll be soldering ironing for some time

[Kiriakos-GR]

A reflow toaster    refloaster 

Nop  ...  I do not think so , specially with solder that contains silver ...
I did some hand soldering  with ANTEX solder + 3% silver , and my solder station at full power,
was just powerful enough so to keep me working.
Never had an issue with common solder... ever . 

 

[TheDirty]

Our host has some advice on this

http://www.artofinternetdating.com/

No joke, this is our very own Dave writing a whole book about Internet dating ...

I think this was missed in the chatter.  This is hilarious.  We need some history on this from Dave.

[Kiriakos-GR]

A reflow toaster    refloaster 

nice! i'm thinking of building somthing like this, but bigger that it can reflow 3-5 boards at once. but when the time comes.

Found it for you ....   

[shodan]

thanks to non-western contributors for sharing their points of view in this thread !

after seeing both sides of "outsourcing"
I think I can fairly say that both sides have interesting misconceptions about each other, but we clearly aren't all that different afterall ...

and I was thinking of getting that tiny solder pot for de-soldering parts off of electronics I scrounge for parts
I bet I can modify it to have better temperature controls
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Brand-new-LEAD-FREE-SOLDERING-POT-100W-CM360A-compact-/280263995187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

oh and not meaning to put some oil on the smoldering fire but I think most westerners who have issues with china manufacturing is that some chinese companies are stealing R&D from western companies and without having to pay for it they can undercut the western company, this situation cannot go on forever, either chinese companies will have to do and pay R&D for themselves or western R&D companies will stop doing R&D?!

[DJPhil]

and I was thinking of getting that tiny solder pot for de-soldering parts off of electronics I scrounge for parts
I bet I can modify it to have better temperature controls
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Brand-new-LEAD-FREE-SOLDERING-POT-100W-CM360A-compact-/280263995187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

My first instinct would be to advise against a solder pot for scrounging. It would be awkward with boards that had SMT stuff on both sides (something's probably going to wind up slag in the pot), and a real challenge to use for more than a few parts at a go. I'd normally recommend a good vacuum desoldering setup, as they're surpisingly fast and flexible.

However, I must say, the price is awfully low on this one. Most of the setups I've seen before (haven't shopped around much) are edging near $200US to get set up, and for that price I'd definitely go with a vacuum system. At $35US delivered plus metal it might be worth a try!

If you do, please let us know how it goes, I'm always looking for better ways to salvage.

[Simon]

Our host has some advice on this

http://www.artofinternetdating.com/

No joke, this is our very own Dave writing a whole book about Internet dating ...

I think this was missed in the chatter.  This is hilarious.  We need some history on this from Dave.

yea I've known about it for a while but been to busy to look into it. oh well got a message from a girl on a dating site so hey never know but I'm not holding out much hope. I think internet dating has become a bit of a joke lately (unless of course you want to break the bank on all the pro sites)

[Kiriakos-GR]

oh and not meaning to put some oil on the smoldering fire but I think most westerners who have issues with china manufacturing is that some chinese companies are stealing R&D from western companies and without having to pay for it they can undercut the western company, this situation cannot go on forever, either chinese companies will have to do and pay R&D for themselves or western R&D companies will stop doing R&D?!

Finally some fresh oil !!    

The stealing .... its an myth ...  Greece had offer so much to this planet as knowledge ,
and nothing was patented  or limited ....  The Greeks did the R&D , and they gave it as gift to any one.

If you are looking to find the ways of how the  " western R&D " (if there is such a thing) .... traveled to China ,
ask all the American  corporations , who moved their business  down to China ..  
And they are still there !!

And something last,  generally speaking  about R&D  , this is no " national goods "  or "national treasure" ..
Its clearly knowledge in a human head .
Where the human goes , his knowledge follows .

There is 8.000 Greeks teachers and professors , teaching in the American schools and university's as we speak.
NASA, has people from all over the planet , working for them  doing  R&D.

Every one can pay any one, to move and do  R&D for him ...

And as last ,  I do not think that  one billion of people, are that stupid , to need any western  R&D ,
as technological support..

 

[Simon]

what is R&D ?

By the way where the hell is everyone ? (apart from trying to copy others designs...) today has been well quiet on here

[marianoapp]

Research and Development?

[ThunderSqueak]

what is R&D ?

By the way where the hell is everyone ? (apart from trying to copy others designs...) today has been well quiet on here

Research and Development.  

Stealing ideas happens all the time ...  


It is my day off and I have been in bed until noon   it felt nice not having to run anywhere.  

Here is a weird bit of history,  from about 1922

Philo T Farnsworth is said to be the inventor of television.  He was a Rigby resident while he formulated his ideas about the electronic transmission of images.  This was before RCA "aquired" (stole?) it.  They have a whole museum there dedicated to television.

[Simon]

and the local Rotary club are involved i see ?

[ThunderSqueak]

and the local Rotary club are involved i see ?

Yeah, Rotary is everywhere.  Even up here in Alaska.  I have donated to fund raisers for them (usually laptops for auction) and as a result we have several new parks and equipment as well as other projects

[Simon]

and the local Rotary club are involved i see ?

Yeah, Rotary is everywhere.  Even up here in Alaska.  I have donated to fund raisers for them (usually laptops for auction) and as a result we have several new parks and equipment as well as other projects

I'm a member of Rotaract which is a 18-30's social club sponsored by Rotary (although it's shameful the amount of people that assume Rotaract is Rotary  even my spell checkers refuse to recognise it  ), We have 3 Rotary clubs locally

[Kiriakos-GR]

Well I am an Free and lonely cowboy , my name are Looky look..

If I feel lonely, I ride my Doly ..   

And I stay away of Clubs with suspicious background.   

About 28 years back, that I was an boy scout,
one teacher in the school told me that I am participating ,
on a Masons organization .... and this because the Founder in UK , had such believes..

Well , I had choose to stay away, and free from anything , that gives the wrong impressions.
I am social enough to break the ICE and meet new people , when ever I feel like. 

 

[Simon]

If I feel lonely, I ride my Doly ..   



 

spare us the details please 

Unfortunately as said above the UK is an unsociable abyss, in that respect I do miss Italy where even someone who hated your guts would have enough moral conviction to help you if you are in real trouble.

Rotaract clubs are great fun and really like any social club it is what the members make it, we are one of the most successful and vibrant clubs in our area due to the fact that having met through the club we are all great friends and would be so even without the club

[Rhythmtech]

The stealing .... its an myth ...  Greece had offer so much to this planet as knowledge ,
and nothing was patented  or limited ....  The Greeks did the R&D , and they gave it as gift to any one.

I have run several tests on copied products for competitive analysis that were blatant copies of the products of the company I work for.  I have met the engineers who came up with the original design and inquired how they came up with it.  Usually they just shrug their shoulders at the copy and point out the finer points of what they missed in copying it. Not all the companies that copied products were Chinese so it is not only their fault. 

Benjamin Franklin made many inventions and purposefully did not patent any of them and freely distributed them for the gain of all people.

Honestly, if I were Chinese I would be trying to copy the high quality, well designed, and well made products of everyone else in the world, it only makes sense to.  We've all copied something in a design, I am sure you don't reinvent your own version of a Schmitt trigger every time you need one. You still pay more to get a high quality product.  The only difference now is that Chinese products are cheap not because they are made in China but because they are designed as such. China has made a completely new market in the world - the "ultra cheap, good enough most of the time, cut a few corners" products market by copying the likeness of successful designs.

Outsourcing is not the Chinese fault. In my opinion the world is using the Chinese to stave off economic depression by offsetting inflation.  I cannot see it lasting forever though and it seems as if we are all ignoring that some day the bill will come due for everyone. Unsafe work environments and poor quality control won't matter to anyone until they are forced to deal with them themselves. Nobody is immune to what they are willing to accept for others.