Is YouTube's video recommendation algorithm completely borked?

[Halcyon]

This is something I've noticed over the last few months. I'm getting video recommendations for things I have absolutely zero interest in an would never watch. For example: Football, Minecraft, non-English language videos/channels, videos about cats, bullshit clickbait videos aimed at teenagers.

No matter how many times I click "Not Interested", it still seems to keep recommended this trash, even though I'm actually signed-in to Youtube.

There's also no one else in my house who would be clicking on any of that kind of content and I have a static IPv4 address to myself.

[Andy Chee]

Yes, I think they may have changed the algorithm behind "Not Interested".

Basically I think they've now incorporated "Not Interested" as a weighted #tag.  Or in other words, the only way to get the "Not Interested" to work properly, is to have other users with identical browsing behaviour as yourself, to also click on "Not Interested".

[YurkshireLad]

I think they’ve given up caring about what you watch, and are trying to push random topics, in the hopes that you’ll click ok something new. Some of the videos YouTube is pushing on me are so far off what I normally watch, it’s hilarious.

[BrianHG]

Warning, if you hover your mouse over videos you don't intend to watch, but they begin to play in their thumbnail, youtube now considers those videos watched and updates your recommendations accordingly.

Youtube did this a long time ago when they started playing the videos in their thumbnails, then removed the acknowledged watching of those videos to prevent the recommendation algorithm from going bonkers.

However, I noticed around 6 weeks ago, this is no longer the case.  Accidentally hover your mouse over a thumbnail with an animated character or drawing (IE: Disney's Mickey mouse has gone public domain on a news video) and all of a sudden, your recommendations are flooded with cartoons since when you scroll over the recommendations page, it goes into a self feeding feedback mechanism as your mouse tends to touch similar topic videos all along the way...

I keep 'not interested' all those cartoon topics, but once in awhile, 1 pops up somewhere, then that's all I see...

[edpalmer42]

Other than being able to comment or like, is there any reason to be logged in?  I've only logged in to Youtube once, so that I could leave a comment.

I also delete their cookies every time I close my browser to minimize what they think they know about my interests.  Deleting their cookies during a session is also a good way to reset things for a fresh start.

I usually use Firefox where this type of cookie crumbling is easy.

Ed

[IanB]

This is something I've noticed over the last few months. I'm getting video recommendations for things I have absolutely zero interest in an would never watch. For example: Football, Minecraft, non-English language videos/channels, videos about cats, bullshit clickbait videos aimed at teenagers.

No matter how many times I click "Not Interested", it still seems to keep recommended this trash, even though I'm actually signed-in to Youtube.

There's also no one else in my house who would be clicking on any of that kind of content and I have a static IPv4 address to myself.

YouTube's only interest is to increase their revenue. It is naïve to think they care about you or your interests, and they only care about content creators so far as they support YouTube's business model.

Their analytics probably show that making all sorts of unrelated recommendations generates "curiosity clicks", and that it increases views to do so.

[Andy Chee]

Other than being able to comment or like, is there any reason to be logged in?

YouTube premium services only work when logged in.

And of course if you're a content creator, you'll need to be logged in to upload a video.

[Black Phoenix]

So it wasn't only my problem looks like. I've realized that (and also an increase of non related electronics and electricity videos with most Hindu and Chinese speaking people) and was thinking it was me who had clicked in something by mistake.

Not that I have anything against Chinese or Hindu, but mostly are ripped off from TikTok and doesn't have any relation with any topic or balant ads to schools or companies.

I have to say such because in th current outlook of society I may be called or racist or anti-chinese or anti-hindu.

It is not against the people itself, it is the videos who don't relate with anything they are categorised as. I would had said the same if the video was done by an caucasian looking guy or hispanic or any kind of race.

[BrianHG]

Other than being able to comment or like, is there any reason to be logged in?  I've only logged in to Youtube once, so that I could leave a comment.

You need to log in to see all the channels you are subscribed to.

In fact, I never go to Youtube's main page, I have a link going straight to my subscriptions page.

This way, I only see videos from people I am interested in.  No outside recommendations unless I click on the main Youtube page.

[edpalmer42]

Other than being able to comment or like, is there any reason to be logged in?  I've only logged in to Youtube once, so that I could leave a comment.

You need to log in to see all the channels you are subscribed to.

In fact, I never go to Youtube's main page, I have a link going straight to my subscriptions page.

This way, I only see videos from people I am interested in.  No outside recommendations unless I click on the main Youtube page.

I just bookmark the video pages of the channels that I'm interested in and then quickly go down the list.  All Youtube knows is that an anonymous user accessed the video page.

The only downside to my anonymous usage is that I can't like videos.

Ed

[wilfred]

If you turn history off and are logged in you'll get a blank page with a notice reminding you history is turned off. If you're not logged in you get a screen of recommendations presumably similar or the same as that everyone else not logged in gets. And that is only good for curiosity clicks which I sometimes do. Hence I log in with history turned off.

I also added some filters to U-block that stops any visibility to the existence of Shorts. The only downside to invisible shorts, aside from embarrassment when out in public, is a channel pops to the top of my subscription list with a new content dot and I don't know it isn't a new video without looking.

As for the algorithm you need to keep in mind Youtube tune it to maximise overall ad revenue. You can assume it works for that purpose and only that purpose. Hence, they added the blank screen and history-off notice for me because they want me to turn history on and improve the algorithm's hit rate for me. Although why they introduced this "incentive" for me to enable history in preference to taking their chances with generic recommendations like they formerly did I don't understand.


I don't think the algorithm is close to perfecting recommendations individually targeted to each viewer. And I also think the most weight is given to clicks on ads so if you block ads then you're muddying the waters as far as well targeted video recommendations. Not sure why I think that because I really don't want to dwell on the Youtube algorithm that much. It changes so frequently I just go with the flow and continue with trying to wean myself of the COVID lockdown induced habits I developed.

I've probably halved my weekly YT viewing in the last 6 months.

[Halcyon]

Other than being able to comment or like, is there any reason to be logged in?

Because I mostly go straight to my "Subscriptions" feed and I'm also subscribed to Premium. I'm honestly at the stage where I'm thinking of cancelling my YouTube Premium subscription anyway. The main driving force behind it initially was because I was eligible for a student discount and I got sick of all the ads (I know there are ways to block those).

But now, so many content creators (even the ones I love) are inserting ads into their content through sponsorships.

There's a small handful of channels where I just download the videos (which doesn't rely on Premium) and store them locally for later viewing, maybe I'll just expand on that instead of using YouTubes site/application.

[DiTBho]

Warning, if you hover your mouse over videos you don't intend to watch, but they begin to play in their thumbnail, youtube now considers those videos watched and updates your recommendations accordingly.

mysterious mysteries ... weeks ago, with no searching key in mind but something Cyberpunk that somehow looks like "Molly Millions", a recurring character in the William Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, a recurring key sequence like a fixed nail in Youtube cache, but it went nut as I was suggested to watch "Milla Jovovich", in a video where she tells the story nehind "The Fifth Element"

Costume | Vogue
W___T___F___?

- what is that? some kind of super secret sub-message hidden among the links? let's investigate - I thought when I instinctively found myself hovering over two videos that I don't intend to watch, perhaps because I cannot resist to Ukrainian Girls (her mother is)

So, yeah, Mila, always delicious to see, but WTF? Ghost in the Shell (2017 ), which is *somehow* a Cyberpunk movie, stars "Scarlett Johansson" and not "Milla Jovovich". So, that's definitively not the kind of things I have been looking in the last two weeks! Especially today I need something for my scripts, I do feel I am in the good vibes to write something ... perhaps good enough for Youtube, who knows, somedays for Netflix, too ...

In time to avoid clicking, too late to avoid the consequences: Poppi's videos appears 

Who?
*IS*?
that?
girl?




(thank goodness she doesn't make pop songs)

[magic]

Their analytics probably show that making all sorts of unrelated recommendations generates "curiosity clicks", and that it increases views to do so.

That would be my first guess. They calculated that more people end up clicking cat videos than quitting YouTube due to cat video recommendations. Particularly if you are already balls deep in the system and browsing logged in. They only fear pissing off new users, who are still a risk of walking away at any time. Addicts are the cash cows to milk.

Or they are trying to deradicalize you and expand your horizons because some SJW somewhere said something about recommendation engines reinforcing online echo chambers. Though if you think about how and why such concerned individuals suddenly became prominent in the media, you can't help but go back to the former paragraph...

[BrianHG]

Warning, if you hover your mouse over videos you don't intend to watch, but they begin to play in their thumbnail, youtube now considers those videos watched and updates your recommendations accordingly.

mysterious mysteries ... weeks ago, with no searching key in mind but something Cyberpunk that somehow looks like "Molly Millions", a recurring character in the William Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, a recurring key sequence like a fixed nail in Youtube cache, but it went nut as I was suggested to watch "Milla Jovovich", in a video where she tells the story nehind "The Fifth Element"

Costume | Vogue
W___T___F___?

- what is that? some kind of super secret sub-message hidden among the links? let's investigate - I thought when I instinctively found myself hovering over two videos that I don't intend to watch, perhaps because I cannot resist to Ukrainian Girls (her mother is)

So, yeah, Mila, always delicious to see, but WTF? Ghost in the Shell (2017 ), which is *somehow* a Cyberpunk movie, stars "Scarlett Johansson" and not "Milla Jovovich". So, that's definitively not the kind of things I have been looking in the last two weeks! Especially today I need something for my scripts, I do feel I am in the good vibes to write something ... perhaps good enough for Youtube, who knows, somedays for Netflix, too ...

In time to avoid clicking, too late to avoid the consequences: Poppi's videos appears 

Who?
*IS*?
that?
girl?




(thank goodness she doesn't make pop songs)

Arrrrgggg, I played your attached video.
Now my recommendations are nothing but daft punk music...
And for some reason cat and other animal videos...

[Andy Chee]

Arrrrgggg, I played your attached video.
Now my recommendations are nothing but daft punk music...
And for some reason cat and other animal videos...

Here's an experiment. 

Assuming that browsing shapes the algorithm, everyone reading this thread should try and "influence" the algorithm by viewing the same playlist of videos (don't need to watch the entire video, just a few seconds for the algorithm to register a view).

This forum effectively has a ready made playlist in the Fun for Nerds thread.

I would be fascinated whether such coordinated viewing from separate EEVblog members, would be sufficient to shape the recommendations presented to an anonymous user browsing YouTube who had never heard of EEVblog.

[DiTBho]

Arrrrgggg, I played your attached video.
Now my recommendations are nothing but daft punk music...
And for some reason cat and other animal videos...

that's precisely the point: there is no connection!

- cross-correlation (Scarlett Johansson, Milla Jovovich ) = { female gender, actresses }
- cross-correlation (Milla Jovovich, Poppy) = { female gender }
- cross-correlation (Molly Millions, Poppy) = { female gender }
- cross-correlation (Scarlett Johansson, Poppy) = { female gender }
- cross-correlation (my favourite music, Poppy) = { }

and there is no correlation even with the covers I moved the mouse over, without clicking to see the video.

Interesting still, I am 100% sure it doesn't even have anything to do with what he suggests to you, after having seen Poppi's video, and the fact that YouTube now (guess "randomly?") offers me videos of two girls:

one who is a marine biologist girl, gets on rubber dinghies on freezing water to mark killer whales (brrrr)
the other girl who instead tries to demonstrate how the hands of primate monkeys were much more similar to the hands of us Homo Sapiense than the hands of chimpanzees, which means that we are not descended from monkeys, but that we ARE a branch of monkeys

and I never clicked/overed my mouse on any of these things X___________X

[SiliconWizard]

I think that's just the beginning of this though. Ultimately, the online services you use will tell you what you want and what you like, and you won't question it anymore. Resistance is futile.

[Excavatoree]

I don't know if's because I watch Dave's videos, or if it's ramdom, or some other reason, but I kept seeing a bunch of drain cleaning videos from a couple of Australian plumbers.  I broke down and watched  a few, and one of the guys uses the same expressions as Dave, but in a totally different context.   The guy's entertaining, so I've continued to watch.  I never thought I'd watch a bunch of drain videos.

[kud_]

It's getting worst.

I remember times, when listening to music or watching some video, next recommended one were pretty similar.

Right now youtube doesn't care what you're listening to. You're listening to some music? OK, so yt will select next one as something popular or something that you listen a lot in the past.

And main page recommendation is tragic. And if you're unlucky and click on something weird but famous like Peterson (it can be critique of him, yt doesn't care) your whole main page will be full of that guy.

[magic]

Another huge issue is that the Internet you miss was a niche thing mostly limited to people at least intelligent enough to configure a modem and install a web browser. I kid you not, this rules out probably 75% of the population right away. But over the last decade it has been "democratized" so much that every idiot is here and beencounters learned to follow the money. You may refuse to waste time on cat videos or "shorts" and maybe even boycott YT over that, but you will be replaced by ten newcomers from TikTok. And they don't even know how to install AdBlock...

Daily reminder that if you ever invent a time machine, please go back and assassinate Steve Jobs ASAP. The original beencounter who betrayed us and followed the money before other beencounters even saw that a money was there.

[larrybud]

Re: hovering over a video counts as "playing" it, you can turn that off. Click on your account in the upper right -> Settings -> Play back and performance -> Turn off "Video Previews"

[YurkshireLad]

Re: hovering over a video counts as "playing" it, you can turn that off. Click on your account in the upper right -> Settings -> Play back and performance -> Turn off "Video Previews"

YouTube keeps reenabling that option on my account. Very annoying.

[SiliconWizard]

Yes, YT tends to re-enable options you have disabled on a regular basis. That's sweet of them. In case you had changed your mind, but wouldn't know yet. I think at some point they'll consider they know you better than you know yourself. Then again, before YT, shrinks used to believe the same thing. So.

[BrianHG]

Another huge issue is that the Internet you miss was a niche thing mostly limited to people at least intelligent enough to configure a modem and install a web browser. I kid you not, this rules out probably 75% of the population right away. But over the last decade it has been "democratized" so much that every idiot is here and beencounters learned to follow the money. You may refuse to waste time on cat videos or "shorts" and maybe even boycott YT over that, but you will be replaced by ten newcomers from TikTok. And they don't even know how to install AdBlock...

Daily reminder that if you ever invent a time machine, please go back and assassinate Steve Jobs ASAP. The original beencounter who betrayed us and followed the money before other beencounters even saw that a money was there.

Sounds like you are wishing for a shadow professionals only internet.  Basically all the .coms would have an equivalent .pro of their web services, but only people of a certain IQ are allowed access to those versions of the net.

[EPAIII]

YouTube is OWNED by Google.

Google is an ADVERTISING company. That's A D V E R T I S I N G! They are there to SELL things. They charge the companies who comprise their clients actual MONEY for placing the ADS in front of viewers (or supposed viewers). They claim to RECOMMEND viewers according to their INTERESTS. This is why they have kept every scrap of data on every Google/YouTube user since the time when Google was a single computer in a college dorm room. They claim that their advertising is directed at people with an interest in "your" product. 

So it is in their FINANCIAL interest to report to those paying clients that people are actually interested in and VIEWING the shows and videos that they place the ads in.

And if there aren't enough people interested in a particular product, then what do they do? Do you think, do you just think that they may be tempted to MANUFACTURE those "interested" people?

Naaaah! Google, YouTube wouldn't do that. No, certainly not!

If you believe that I know of some Florida land you may be interested in buying. Or south Louisiana if you prefer. But bring your hip boots.

[magic]

Another huge issue is that the Internet you miss was a niche thing mostly limited to people at least intelligent enough to configure a modem and install a web browser.

Sounds like you are wishing for a shadow professionals only internet.  Basically all the .coms would have an equivalent .pro of their web services, but only people of a certain IQ are allowed access to those versions of the net.

To avoid cheating it needs to be a matter of "possible", not "allowed", and "professional" is merely a title which you can buy, not exactly the same as "competent"
Without another major revolution this situation is not coming back.

YouTube is OWNED by Google.

Google is an ADVERTISING company. That's A D V E R T I S I N G! They are there to SELL things.

YouTube WaS 4lwaYs in Th3 saM3 BusiNeSS siNCe THEIR foundaTIOn aNd yEt tHEY arE b ec o m in g w0rSe aNd WORSe.

BTW, anyone knows if they only became profitable in the last few years? I sort of doubt it, that would be a very long run at a loss...

[DiTBho]

I think that's just the beginning of this though. Ultimately, the online services you use will tell you what you want and what you like, and you won't question it anymore. Resistance is futile.

Today I woke up early in the morning, opened my laptop, made a good coffee and... they told me I do like a Chair by NobleChairs.
About two years ago I bought an IKEA standing-desk, still to be assembled, I don't know how, but two advs to Youtube videos cannot be wrong:
they somehow know you have a desk, but not the chair, so YOU LIKE IT, you need it!
and so, I bought it