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It is here: crime tax!
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eugene:
A few years ago someone stole my debit card number and must have made counterfeit cards as they withdrew $1000 from my bank account (in several steps as there's a limit to how much can be withdrawn in one transaction.) I needed to file a report with the police, but the bank took the loss and put the money back into my account.

I thought it was a little odd that the bank was held responsible, but I realize that it's necessary incentive for them to protect my money. If they're able to charge fees to effectively cover those losses, does that mean they'll have less incentive to try to stop this sort of crime? In a sense, they're just collecting enough money from us to hand over to the criminals....

That, I think, is what's really wrong with these fees. If the crime is to be prevented, then the banks need to feel the incentive to stop it.
magic:
The bank nor the CC companies have no incentive to protect you.
They push the cost onto the seller who accepted the fraudulent payment.

That's why places which accept CC, particularly online, are extremely paranoid about fraud.

CC is generally a braindead idea ::)
But CC companies made a lot of money by ultimately extorting all buyers, whether using CC or not.
So I guess a smart idea too...
pcprogrammer:

--- Quote from: eugene on September 01, 2022, 01:10:42 pm ---In a sense, they're just collecting enough money from us to hand over to the criminals....

--- End quote ---

Who do you think the criminals are :-//

They are the stake holders in the banks to begin with :-DD

The story the bank told us was that the IT costs to protect against cyber crime were getting more and more, so they need to charge us, the account holders, to compensate for them making less money.
PlainName:

--- Quote ---If the crime is to be prevented, then the banks need to feel the incentive to stop it.
--- End quote ---

But it wasn't the banks fault and they couldn't stop it no matter how big the virtual fine was. It's just that they have to pay for it, regardless.
eugene:

--- Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 01, 2022, 01:29:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: eugene on September 01, 2022, 01:10:42 pm ---In a sense, they're just collecting enough money from us to hand over to the criminals....

--- End quote ---

Who do you think the criminals are :-//

They are the stake holders in the banks to begin with :-DD

--- End quote ---

I don't understand. You can't be suggesting that the people that made a counterfeit debit card then used it to withdraw money from mu bank account were stake holders in the bank. That doesn't make any sense at all.


--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on September 01, 2022, 02:08:31 pm ---
--- Quote ---If the crime is to be prevented, then the banks need to feel the incentive to stop it.
--- End quote ---

But it wasn't the banks fault and they couldn't stop it no matter how big the virtual fine was. It's just that they have to pay for it, regardless.

--- End quote ---

That was my initial reaction too. But after more thought I decided that if anyone is going to stop this kind of theft it will have to be the banks, and they're not going to do it without incentive. Suppose someone forges a check in your name then goes into a bank to cash it. We expect the bank teller to make some effort to make sure that the check is legitimate and that the person cashing the check is who they claim to be. What if they just cashed the check without making any effort to verify the authenticity, then said "not our fault." Then added a monthly fee to cover the losses. That would be absurd. We do hold them responsible for those kind of crimes, and we need to hold them responsible for credit/debit card fraud.

It might be the case that the current system doesn't make it reasonable for them to stop credit/debit card fraud. So who's going to fix things? The people that end up paying for the fraud are the only one's with incentive to do so, and that needs to be the banks. There is no one else.
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