Author Topic: Its big! Car audio amplifier...  (Read 34472 times)

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Offline AmmoJammo

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Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« on: October 27, 2013, 07:38:09 pm »




 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2013, 07:42:08 pm »
Because it's important the people on the other side of the six lane motorway can hear your taste in music as they go past.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2013, 07:44:22 pm »
So that is where that month's production of Lelon capacitors went..... I was wondering who bought the batch.

Should only take about a week to change them all when they die.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 07:47:55 pm »
Because it's important the people on the other side of the six lane motorway can hear your taste in music as they go past.

The worst part is that once you've gone deaf, you don't even need to maintain a good taste in music. You might as well play an endless loop of a guy farting in your boom wagon, the bystanders are the only ones who have to hear it...

I'm not sure if I am joking or not.
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2013, 07:54:25 pm »
I did once hear a bus coming from 1km away along a busy road. I decided to wait for the next one that was not sound propelled. Back 2 rows of seats were missing, the area being one massive wall of subwoofers. I think the sound system definitely cost more than the 50 year old Leyland bus did.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2013, 08:25:45 pm »
Those caps are 220V, 1000uF. I wonder how many times over it would kill you if you touched that bus while live.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2013, 08:27:06 pm »
Those caps are 220V, 1000uF. I wonder how many times over it would kill you if you touched that bus while live.

And just how much you'd deserve it.
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2013, 08:29:22 pm »
+-175 volt rails ;)
 

Offline tized

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2013, 08:36:28 pm »
How fast would it drain the car batteries if you forget to have the engine running?
More than just acoustic pollution to this beast...
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 09:01:47 pm by tized »
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2013, 08:42:14 pm »
Wow, thanks for sharing. Can we bridge them?
 

Offline Clint

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2013, 08:49:15 pm »
Those caps are 220V, 1000uF. I wonder how many times over it would kill you if you touched that bus while live.

And just how much you'd deserve it.

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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2013, 12:54:16 am »
+-175 volt rails ;)
I guess it started out as a power inverter design? If you could score one of those for cheap (perhaps one with a bad DC/DC), it should be very easy to make it into a VFD for a small air conditioner.
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Offline c4757p

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2013, 01:15:15 am »
+-175 volt rails ;)

Sweet mother of god, why!? :wtf: How many watts does this thing put out? A quick back-of-the-envelope (OK, top-of-the-calculator) calculation gave somewhere between "on fire W" and "molten kW" per speaker...
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Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2013, 02:04:47 am »
Designed and built by Zenon in Korea. Should do just under 10,000 watts per amp into 1ohm. The first pic was too amps side by side ;)
 

Offline TMM

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2013, 02:22:54 am »
That's not an audio amplifier, it's a precision arc welder  :-+
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2013, 02:59:26 am »
And yes you can strap two together for 20kw into 2 ohm ;)
 

Offline PedroDaGr8

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2013, 04:09:16 am »
Speaking of arc welder. I remember a guy telling me back in the 90s a few of the amplifier companies used to do just that. To show their amps were stable into fractional ohms (at over 1kW) they would actually use them as arc welders.
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Offline rexxar

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2013, 04:25:42 am »
Speaking of arc welder. I remember a guy telling me back in the 90s a few of the amplifier companies used to do just that. To show their amps were stable into fractional ohms (at over 1kW) they would actually use them as arc welders.

That's insane.  :o
 

Offline poorchava

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2013, 07:57:32 am »
I remember a guy on Polish electronic forums, who built a 3kW RMS (IIRC) AB-class audio amplifier. He was boiling water in a 50l bucket as a load test :)
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2013, 08:05:43 am »
Sweet mother of god...
god doesnt have a mother. where did you hear that bollock? :scared:
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2013, 08:14:44 am »
Is that 10kW continuous? I don't believe you can do 10kW with just a small cooling fan -- you'd need water cooling to do that.

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Offline Psi

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2013, 08:24:02 am »
How fast would it drain the car batteries if you forget to have the engine running?
More than just acoustic pollution to this beast...

Math says 2-3min, but probably more like 30 sec due to the battery starting to melt/boil
10kw is 833A
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Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2013, 08:32:44 am »
Battery life would depend entirely on how many batteries you have? :P

These amps weigh in at 28kgs, and are of course class D, so I believe they have enough heatsinking to run fairly continuously ;)
 

Offline peter.mitchell

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2013, 08:34:05 am »
I am not certain but I thought on the highr power units they required a 24/36v/48v supply opposed to just 12v?
Class D huh?  Looking at the filtering they look like they'd be better as an AM transmitter at 10kw then. ..
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 08:35:52 am by peter.mitchell »
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2013, 08:36:31 am »
Quote
Should do just under 10,000 watts per amp into 1ohm

A few others have asked the same question - where the fuck do you get 20kW from in a car with 12V wiring and perhaps a 1kW alternator?

Unless, of course, you plan on towing one of these behind you :)

Edit:
Quote
I am not certain but I thought on the highr power units they required a 24/36v/48v supply opposed to just 12v?
OK, even at 48V that's over 400A without taking the amp efficiency into account.

But, see above, where do you find 20kW in a car?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 08:39:03 am by grumpydoc »
 

Offline TMM

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2013, 08:44:41 am »
Lots of batteries. It's not uncommon for guys that run serious amps like this to have multiple (5+) 100Ah+ 12v batteries in parallel installed close to the amplifier. Cars that 'demo' their systems for extended periods often also have multiple 300A+ capable alternators as well.

The standard battery/alternator in most cars is only good for about 1500W in short bursts and about 500W continuous.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 08:47:59 am by TMM »
 

Online wraper

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2013, 08:45:59 am »
Some years ago I watched some show on Discovery. They changed alternator and entire wiring in a car just to drive that amplifier. Wires were like 2 cm in diameter, maybe even more.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2013, 08:54:09 am »
 

Offline TMM

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2013, 09:22:04 am »
^pffft fake.

8000W:


22500W:
 

Online wraper

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2013, 09:23:51 am »
^pffft fake.
Of course it is. But you get the idea  :)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 10:19:21 am by wraper »
 

Offline tized

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2013, 09:24:24 am »
But, see above, where do you find 20kW in a car?

I have a 60kW (peak) electrical system in my car, it is used to move the car (a hybrid), not the speakers.
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2013, 09:33:44 am »
To run these two amps, I'd probably want six 130ah, 1000cca batteries as a minimum ;)

Car already has a 300+ amp alternator, but a second would help too!
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2013, 10:19:29 am »
There is no way that 10,000W DC-DC converter can do that with just that poxy fan - I mean if you even want to approach above 5kW output power (of a DC-DC) you start needing water cooling, just for the inductors!
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2013, 10:21:44 am »
Crazy

You guys are so gona wish you hadn't when you get older. Tinnitus can be become quite bad for some people in older age (I suffer from it myself), not to mention deafness.

It's just not worth it - something you really don't realise until it's too late (it's unreversable).
Tinnitus sucks.  :rant: Didn't get it from loud noise/music, but that doesn't mean much (born with it).  :'(
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2013, 10:23:05 am »
There is no way that 10,000W DC-DC converter can do that with just that poxy fan - I mean if you even want to approach above 5kW output power (of a DC-DC) you start needing water cooling, just for the inductors!

Good thing there are no inductors on the power supply section then! ;)
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2013, 10:30:47 am »
There is no way that 10,000W DC-DC converter can do that with just that poxy fan - I mean if you even want to approach above 5kW output power (of a DC-DC) you start needing water cooling, just for the inductors!

Good thing there are no inductors on the power supply section then! ;)

How on earth do you get +/-175V from 12V then? There are clearly six inductors on the input near the power input, which will form part of the DC-DC converter.  It looks like a nonisolated topology, so at least the efficiency will be a little higher, but there's no way in hell each of those inductors is going to do ~150A continuously (plus peak currenbt, losses) without overheating the core and cracking it. Or causing magnetic saturation, which will be extremely destructive to the power electronics. Completely inadequate air flow, too. If you do demand 10kW from it, it will fail quickly.

Not to mention, capacitor ripple current. Those look like Samyoung caps on the 12V side; nothing special, unlikely to have a high ripple current rating.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 10:32:44 am by tom66 »
 

Offline hedgewallace

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2013, 10:34:31 am »
Wow! They are some decent capacitors!

I have seen big capacitors in microwaves (probably a little bit bigger than these), but there are so many of them!
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2013, 10:35:31 am »
Yeah, I do not see that thing putting out 10kW, and if it seriously can, I'd like to see how they did it, because I seriously have something to learn about power electronics...

Sweet mother of god...
god doesnt have a mother. where did you hear that bollock? :scared:

Well yeah, if he doesn't exist he can't have a mother.... ;) (Let's not get started again :scared: :-DD) (Born and raised Catholic, still have the habits ;))
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Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2013, 10:40:06 am »
They aren't inductors, they're transformers, and each will easily handle the ~2kw they need to. Im guessing you haven't done much with high powered car amplifiers before ;)
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2013, 10:45:41 am »
They aren't inductors, they're transformers, and each will easily handle the ~2kw they need to. Im guessing you haven't done much with high powered car amplifiers before ;)

Oh dear, clearly you do not know about power electronics ;) (admittedly it is new to me too.) I'm not a car audio enthusiast, but that is irrelevant.

Transformers at high frequency are even more lossy than an inductor. Because you have that crappy, lossy magnetic core in the middle. There is no fking way that one of those poxy torodial coils is going to operate at 2kW for any length of time without serious cooling. And one cheap 12V computer fan does not count as sufficient cooling!

With the amount of power behind one of these amps I seriously would not want to be in the same room when (not if) it fails.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 10:47:39 am by tom66 »
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2013, 10:47:30 am »
You don't even know how big the cores are though... Lol
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2013, 10:48:11 am »
You don't even know how big the cores are though... Lol

I can estimate easily based on the surrounding size of other components, I'd say around 2~2.5 inches diameter and about an inch deep.

Looking closely at the topology, it appears to be flyback/push-pull type. One of the easiest to design, since you can basically put any components in and get an output (of course don't expect it to be efficient or reliable!)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 10:50:30 am by tom66 »
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2013, 10:52:26 am »
For reference, the transformer in the top center of this power board is capable of operating around 280W continuously. A transformer capable of 2kW would need to be much larger, especially if it accepts a very low input voltage of 12V.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 10:55:05 am by tom66 »
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2013, 10:56:14 am »
Transformers at high frequency are even more lossy than an inductor. Because you have that crappy, lossy magnetic core in the middle. There is no fking way that one of those poxy torodial coils is going to operate at 2kW for any length of time without serious cooling.

If you look closely you can see the windings are made up of a very large number of smaller enameled wires to reduce the loss from skin effect.  Coupled that with a really good core material and the right switching frequency and a kW rating might work.

For reference, the transformer in the top center of this power board is capable of operating around 280W continuously. A transformer capable of 2kW would need to be much larger, especially if it accepts a very low input voltage of 12V.
That's a transformer from consumer electronics (made to be ultra cheap) and it's not even a toroid. Totally different thing.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 11:10:55 am by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2013, 11:04:39 am »
Quote from: tized
I have a 60kW (peak) electrical system in my car, it is used to move the car (a hybrid), not the speakers.
OK, yes hybrids and EV's do have that sort of electrical power kicking around but not, as you say, to drove the in-car hi-fi.

Quote from: TMM
Lots of batteries. It's not uncommon for guys that run serious amps like this to have multiple (5+) 100Ah+ 12v batteries in parallel installed close to the amplifier.
Hmmm, I can see that would supply the current, at least short term - I guess you'd easily get 2kA out of 5x100Ah batteries.

Mind you if a 20kW capable amp were not grotesque enough the sound system is starting to look like it will render any vehicle impractical for normal use. I mean, speakers to handle 20kW are not going to be either small or light and you've just added 150-200kg of batteries into the equation.  :o

Quote from: TMM
Cars that 'demo' their systems for extended periods often also have multiple 300A+ capable alternators as well.
You'd need to, to recharge that battery bank.

Quote from: TMM
The standard battery/alternator in most cars is only good for about 1500W in short bursts and about 500W continuous.
Pretty much what I said, I think.
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2013, 12:36:50 pm »
Designed and built by Zenon in Korea. Should do just under 10,000 watts per amp into 1ohm. The first pic was too amps side by side ;)
100V@100A? :o :o :o

Quote
Mind you if a 20kW capable amp were not grotesque enough the sound system is starting to look like it will render any vehicle impractical for normal use.
I think that's sort of the point of this...
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #46 on: October 28, 2013, 12:43:03 pm »
Quote
I think that's sort of the point of this...
Ah, OK, hadn't heard of that :)

I suppose it's not surprising - given that humans are competitive by nature - that we should have contests to see who has the loudest sound system in their car.

It does explain the need to supply the load for only a fairly short term.
 

Offline ElectroIrradiator

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2013, 12:43:45 pm »
So this is where Disaster Area have their roots... :D

Edit for great reference:

Quote
The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy notes that Disaster Area, a plutonium rock band from the Gagrakacka Mind Zones, are generally held to be not only the loudest rock band in the Galaxy, but in fact the loudest noise of any kind at all. Regular concert-goers judge that the best sound balance is usually to be heard from within large concrete bunkers some thirty-seven miles from the stage, whilst the musicians themselves play their instruments by remote control from within a heavily insulated spaceship which stays in orbit around the planet - or more frequently around a completely different planet.

Their songs are on the whole very simple and mostly follow the familiar theme of boy-being meets girl-being beneath a silvery moon, which then explodes for no adequately explored reason.

Many worlds have now banned their act altogether, sometimes for artistic reasons, but most commonly because the band's public address system contravenes local strategic arms limitation treaties.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 12:47:17 pm by ElectroIrradiator »
 

Offline GK

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2013, 01:21:24 pm »
Reminds me of this for some reason


Bzzzzt. No longer care, over this forum shit.........ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Offline TMM

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2013, 01:52:10 pm »
Crazy

You guys are so gona wish you hadn't when you get older. Tinnitus can be become quite bad for some people in older age (I suffer from it myself), not to mention deafness.

It's just not worth it - something you really don't realise until it's too late (it's unreversable).
Not all of us drive around jamming at full noise on a daily basis lol.
My system (pretty weak, 138.5dB) probably sees full volume for a few minutes a year at competitions - the rest of the time everything is virtually idling in sound quality mode :p

140dB bass isn't too damaging to hearing. It's probably about as damaging as sticking your head out the window of a moving car. 150dB will make your ears feel funny. 160dB is insta-damage.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 01:56:05 pm by TMM »
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2013, 02:07:30 pm »
Why are the "pros" even thinking about 12V when at those power levels, high voltage more than makes sense?

And while there's certainly not many "proper" applications for such a powerful amp in a car, there are still a few. Like a mobile PA system.
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Offline kfitch42

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2013, 02:16:20 pm »
But, see above, where do you find 20kW in a car?

Perhaps you skip the whole mechanical->electrical->mechanical conversion nonsense. The Mythbusters built a diesel powered subwoofer that got over 160 dB spl at 16Hz.

 

Online Shock

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2013, 02:45:24 pm »
Once the Sony LCD TV was brought into the room the capacitors curiously failed.
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Offline Anks

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2013, 03:10:15 pm »
I work with sound equipment and hire Pro audio PA out to events and we always get asked how many watts by the daft promoters but the educated sound technicians are more interested in SPL and dispersion. A Precision Devices 1850 can be powered by a 500watt amp in the correct cabinet and create almost twice the SPL of most high end car drivers being powered from 2000watts.

As for the amplifier being shown I would have to guess that the total clean sine wave output is nowhere near its spec.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2013, 03:14:00 pm »
Perhaps you skip the whole mechanical->electrical->mechanical conversion nonsense. The Mythbusters built a diesel powered subwoofer that got over 160 dB spl at 16Hz.
Or go straight for the pulsejet!
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Offline c4757p

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2013, 03:18:14 pm »
I work with sound equipment and hire Pro audio PA out to events and we always get asked how many watts by the daft promoters but the educated sound technicians are more interested in SPL and dispersion.

I was just more interested in the sheer amount of power that passes through this thing. Couldn't care less how loud it is... Once it's beyond "unhealthy" I lose interest. :=\ But I do like power electronics, and nothing says "power electronics nerdgasm" like a precision arc welder ;D
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Online Monkeh

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2013, 03:20:49 pm »
Crazy

You guys are so gona wish you hadn't when you get older. Tinnitus can be become quite bad for some people in older age (I suffer from it myself), not to mention deafness.

It's just not worth it - something you really don't realise until it's too late (it's unreversable).
Not all of us drive around jamming at full noise on a daily basis lol.
My system (pretty weak, 138.5dB) probably sees full volume for a few minutes a year at competitions - the rest of the time everything is virtually idling in sound quality mode :p

140dB bass isn't too damaging to hearing. It's probably about as damaging as sticking your head out the window of a moving car. 150dB will make your ears feel funny. 160dB is insta-damage.

"Isn't too damaging"

Any avoidable damage is too much damage.
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2013, 03:56:05 pm »
They do not need to work for long as they are for Loud car competitions they play a single frequency for a short period and measure the sound output often well over 150 dba. They have to replace the glass with plastic bolted in otherwise it's blown out. That bottom video is of a van with 30 KW.

























« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 04:03:49 pm by G7PSK »
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2013, 06:53:20 pm »
As for the amplifier being shown I would have to guess that the total clean sine wave output is nowhere near its spec.

Why not?

The amplifier pictured below happily does about 3500watts cleanly, and its less than half the size of the first amps pictured (I say "half" its probably bigger than that... lol)
Well, when it has a heatsink on it, and isn't blown up  :-//

 

Offline ciccio

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2013, 07:50:41 pm »
Speaking of arc welder. I remember a guy telling me back in the 90s a few of the amplifier companies used to do just that. To show their amps were stable into fractional ohms (at over 1kW) they would actually use them as arc welders.
About 1980 I met a  guy, the late Brian Gary Wachner,  founder of the BGW company (that still exists).
He built very powerful amplifiers, and one was called "the Arc Welder Special".
I saw a demo at some exhibition where they demonstrated their efficient protection circuit  by creating big sparks when shorting the output terminals.

The year after my company demonstrated our new amplifiers driving an electric drill with a 50 Hz signal at the input... just to do something different.

In those years I had a second job: in my home lab I did maintenance and repairs for many importers of pro-audio gear, and I must admit that I've seen only one BGW amplifier, and many more of better known  manufacturers..
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Offline Kryoclasm

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2013, 02:48:51 am »
The military should weaponize these Boombox cars... ie paint them camo, and use them for front line offensive operations. Making your enemies heads explode!  :box:
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Offline TMM

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2013, 04:12:20 am »
Crazy

You guys are so gona wish you hadn't when you get older. Tinnitus can be become quite bad for some people in older age (I suffer from it myself), not to mention deafness.

It's just not worth it - something you really don't realise until it's too late (it's unreversable).
Not all of us drive around jamming at full noise on a daily basis lol.
My system (pretty weak, 138.5dB) probably sees full volume for a few minutes a year at competitions - the rest of the time everything is virtually idling in sound quality mode :p

140dB bass isn't too damaging to hearing. It's probably about as damaging as sticking your head out the window of a moving car. 150dB will make your ears feel funny. 160dB is insta-damage.

"Isn't too damaging"

Any avoidable damage is too much damage.
Truth. I don't go to music concerts because my ears feel far worse for wear after...
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2013, 05:02:53 am »
The year after my company demonstrated our new amplifiers driving an electric drill with a 50 Hz signal at the input... just to do something different.
And those who have actually tried to run a mains voltage drill from a 30V or so supply (did that as a failed experiment to really slow it down for operating a pasta maker - ended up getting a proper geared motor assembly) would know how easy it is to actually make one of those things turn. They should have used something bigger like an air conditioner (which is a remarkably difficult load unless the inverter is specifically designed for it) or a vacuum cleaner.
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Offline smashedProton

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Re: Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2013, 06:25:10 am »
Is that 10kW continuous? I don't believe you can do 10kW with just a small cooling fan -- you'd need water cooling to do that.

"sweet mother of god" is a saying which refers to the Virgin Mary... it's a saying... don't take it too seriously.

Actually there is the holy trinity So the ghost man,  Jesus and the father are the same, sui everyone Is right.   
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Offline kfitch42

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2013, 01:46:03 pm »
The military should weaponize these Boombox cars... ie paint them camo, and use them for front line offensive operations. Making your enemies heads explode!  :box:

There is a little known corollary to 'rule 34', if you can think of it, the US military has a weapon of it:
http://www.psywarrior.com/loudspeaker.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4857417

http://physicscentral.com/explore/action/speech-jam.cfm
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 02:05:45 pm by kfitch42 »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2013, 06:32:43 pm »
The year after my company demonstrated our new amplifiers driving an electric drill with a 50 Hz signal at the input... just to do something different.
And those who have actually tried to run a mains voltage drill from a 30V or so supply (did that as a failed experiment to really slow it down for operating a pasta maker - ended up getting a proper geared motor assembly) would know how easy it is to actually make one of those things turn. They should have used something bigger like an air conditioner (which is a remarkably difficult load unless the inverter is specifically designed for it) or a vacuum cleaner.

They do run quite well from a 115V 400Hz aircraft power supply, though they have a lot less power and tend to sing a lot. Running them off the DC bus was good for light work like taking out rivets when there was no air supply available to run air tools.
 

Offline tesla500

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #66 on: October 29, 2013, 08:37:43 pm »
I'm just waiting for someone to modify an electric car traction inverter to drive subwoofers as a class D amplifier. A Tesla Model S inverter could drive almost 400kW of speakers if you add some filtering on the output! Would be 3 phase though, some interesting acoustic design would be needed.
 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #67 on: October 29, 2013, 11:10:11 pm »
Reminds me of my younger days in competition car audio. My favorite amps were Orion "red" HCCA amps (not sure how well they are made these days - I haven't been involved in competition audio since the mid 90's), we would wire a number of 15" or 18" sub drivers in parallel - not uncommon to put < 1 ohm loads on them. The hardest thing was supplying enough current quickly enough to avoid clipping. It was normal practice to install special alternators along with a bank of deep-cycle marine batteries for the power system, along with a bank of supercaps very near to the amplifier hardware.

At least once in their life everyone should get to experience 150+ dB of raw bass while sitting in the cab of one of those SPL show cars. It is a unique sensation - there is nothing else like it in the world. (and don't be an idiot and ignore the deafness warnings - wear the proper ear protection)
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2013, 05:46:28 pm »
I had that already. Atar 09K50 at full afterburner with you standing next to it. Full body massage..........
 

Offline Alex

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2013, 07:22:04 pm »
This looks like the Phoenix Gold "The One". 12kW, bridgeable. In the words of the presenter:
They began with a typical class D topology...and then someone threw the lunacy switch.



Why increase the battery voltage when you can throw ferrite and copper at the problem? :-//

Alex.
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2013, 05:40:18 am »
This looks like the Phoenix Gold "The One". 12kW, bridgeable. In the words of the presenter:


Doesn't really  :--

The transformers in "the one" don't look to have heavy enough gauge/quantity windings on them.... One webpage I found said the following:

"Maximum power at 1 ohm at 16 volts was a ridiculous 9419 watts! If you do the math, that means the amps output to the speaker load was over 90 amperes, and over 90 volts. "

Not sure how you advertise a 9400watt at 16volt amplifier as being 12,000watts :p The amp I pictured should do more than that off 14.4volts :)
 

Offline senso

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2013, 06:00:37 am »
Peak value measured during 10ms, 1ms, or 0.1ms, or some stupid non-real world value..
 

Offline 84GKSIG

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2013, 07:51:05 am »
i guess if you like listening to your music in full rage, a little extra reserve current to stop bottoming out in the low frequencies or clipping is fairly important, but that is just silly even to me  :P
 

Offline Alex

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #73 on: October 31, 2013, 10:21:40 am »
Doesn't really  :--
The amp I pictured should do more than that off 14.4volts :)

Nah, "the one" is clearly superior. You will have to return it now and get a real man's amp, if you can afford it!


 

Offline Setar2k11

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #74 on: October 31, 2013, 01:57:52 pm »
That amp is just a toy.... This ,http://www.pknc.com/3phase_eng.html, is an amp, 2 x 20Kw into 2.66ohms, all in a 1U rack mount case.
 

Offline Jon86

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #75 on: October 31, 2013, 05:00:54 pm »
That amp is just a toy.... This ,http://www.pknc.com/3phase_eng.html, is an amp, 2 x 20Kw into 2.66ohms, all in a 1U rack mount case.

Holy crap, I want one!
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Offline Six_Shooter

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2013, 05:50:24 am »
Why are the "pros" even thinking about 12V when at those power levels, high voltage more than makes sense?

And while there's certainly not many "proper" applications for such a powerful amp in a car, there are still a few. Like a mobile PA system.

Because rules in every car audio competition league/organization dictate no more than 16V systems in most cases, some restrict, or at least used to, down to 14.4V. If they didn't it would be a lot easier to get more power.

Reminds me of my younger days in competition car audio. My favorite amps were Orion "red" HCCA amps (not sure how well they are made these days - I haven't been involved in competition audio since the mid 90's), we would wire a number of 15" or 18" sub drivers in parallel - not uncommon to put < 1 ohm loads on them. The hardest thing was supplying enough current quickly enough to avoid clipping. It was normal practice to install special alternators along with a bank of deep-cycle marine batteries for the power system, along with a bank of supercaps very near to the amplifier hardware.

At least once in their life everyone should get to experience 150+ dB of raw bass while sitting in the cab of one of those SPL show cars. It is a unique sensation - there is nothing else like it in the world. (and don't be an idiot and ignore the deafness warnings - wear the proper ear protection)

Yep, that was also back when I got into Car Audio, right around 1992. The HCCAs were the hot ticket. I wanted one of the 2100 HHCAs so badly, a "200 watt" amplifier that was around 24" long, 10" wide and 6" tall. ;) I was also fond of the 2250SX I think it was, in the same heatsink, only black, and wasn't a "high current" amplifier.

Then there was the MS series from Phoenix Gold, I still haven't found anything comparable, and I have some Phoenix Gold Xenon stuff in my crawl space. :/

Peak value measured during 10ms, 1ms, or 0.1ms, or some stupid non-real world value..

I refer to those as "ILS Ratings" - If Lightning Strikes.

Phoenix Gold used to be known for putting REAL output ratings on their products, but they were bought out and have been caught up in the same ILS ratings that most other companies put on their products to sell them. The good manufacturers will still publish the real ratings, usually at low THD and sometimes with a full range or proper range for that component frequency range.

Even though I am very much into efficiency, both in space and power used by anything, I still can't help to like the look of surf board amplifiers, must be that guy thing...
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #77 on: November 18, 2013, 06:48:31 am »
That amp is just a toy.... This ,http://www.pknc.com/3phase_eng.html, is an amp, 2 x 20Kw into 2.66ohms, all in a 1U rack mount case.

But does it come with Monster cables?
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #78 on: September 11, 2014, 10:20:49 pm »
Hopefully getting these amps installed soon! Finally!

Working on the sub box at the moment to house these subs.

 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #79 on: September 11, 2014, 10:40:16 pm »
Hopefully getting these amps installed soon! Finally!

Working on the sub box at the moment to house these subs.
Doing SPL competition? Or just want to be heard half a mile away?  :o  :P
 

Offline RobertoLG

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #80 on: September 11, 2014, 10:49:21 pm »
would be fun playing some dark electro :D
 

Offline SirNick

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2014, 07:24:10 pm »
I'm a big fan of this one:

http://www.parts-express.com/tang-band-w6-1139si-6-1-2-subwoofer--264-832



I've built two boxes for this:

One is a tapped horn good down to 38Hz, with a home-built 50W amp.  More than enough volume for a small office, and goes deeper than the room's geometry makes it practical to hear anyway.

The other is a ported box tuned to ~30Hz, just to see what it could do.    It runs out of Xmax fairly easily, but it's impressive how much output you can get from a 6.5" driver.  Two of them would be "enough" for music at reasonable levels in a home.  Not quite enough huevos rancheros for home theater though.
 

Offline jlmoon

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #82 on: September 12, 2014, 08:46:47 pm »
I'm still looking for the miniature therm o-nuclear reactor that is going to provide the required energy/joules to drive the incredibly and physically large loads this so called 20KW amp system is driving.  Ok, is it under the seat, back floor pan where the spare was.. or where?  The currents, heating and all the other parameters would be out the roof on this one.  <<< Still impossible, physics rules!>>>

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Offline jlmoon

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #83 on: September 12, 2014, 08:51:38 pm »
That amp is just a toy.... This ,http://www.pknc.com/3phase_eng.html, is an amp, 2 x 20Kw into 2.66ohms, all in a 1U rack mount case.

Holy crap, I want one!

Now we're talking.. 3phase power.. oh yes!!!  Look at the output current and voltage on that bad boy.  Not for a young player!

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Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #84 on: September 12, 2014, 09:09:43 pm »
I'm still looking for the miniature therm o-nuclear reactor that is going to provide the required energy/joules to drive the incredibly and physically large loads this so called 20KW amp system is driving.  Ok, is it under the seat, back floor pan where the spare was.. or where?  The currents, heating and all the other parameters would be out the roof on this one.  <<< Still impossible, physics rules!>>>

Battery box is going under the car to house six 130ah, 1000cca deep cycle AGM batteries.


(the cardboard box pictured above was just to see how much space I had available)

Also plan to have a 7th battery the same under the bonnet, and possible an 8th in the back next to the box.

So, 1040ah worth of batteries, plus the 300amp alternator.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #85 on: September 12, 2014, 09:28:34 pm »
Take a look at some LiFePO4 batteries. They're very popular with DIY EV builders and are much cheaper than they used to be.
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Offline Strada916

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #86 on: September 12, 2014, 11:32:45 pm »
What value on watt are wt
The Bone, the Off-White, the Ivory or the Beige?
 

Offline SirNick

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #87 on: September 12, 2014, 11:36:01 pm »
Uh, watt?
 

Offline Towger

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #88 on: September 13, 2014, 08:13:31 am »
What you need is a tesla battery. Should give enough power for 3 or 4 hours.
Btw I did not think cars still used spring leaf suspension!
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #89 on: September 13, 2014, 11:46:01 am »
What you need is a tesla battery. Should give enough power for 3 or 4 hours.
Btw I did not think cars still used spring leaf suspension!
Perhaps it's a truck or SUV (still use leaf spring suspensions)?
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #90 on: September 13, 2014, 11:58:07 am »
Its a 2005 Ford Falcon wagon.

 

Offline VK5RC

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #91 on: September 13, 2014, 12:11:40 pm »
Dumb question, is the aim SPL or power consumption, if the former, aren't  the speakers/enclosures always the weak link?
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #92 on: September 13, 2014, 01:02:08 pm »
Aim is "musical" spl... its intended to play music, but get loud..
Its not so much the speakers that let spl down, "anything" can get loud.
 

Offline Yago

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #93 on: September 13, 2014, 01:33:52 pm »
Do I wear the Dave Jones or Desmond Morris hat?

 

Offline tom66

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #94 on: September 13, 2014, 03:34:00 pm »
When we get EVs more commonly appearing on the streets I'm sure we'll see nutters tapping into the 400VDC battery pack... feel like 50kW into an audio system?
 

Offline GK

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #95 on: September 14, 2014, 01:15:32 am »
I finally found cause to introduce myself to my new neighbor, by slamming on the fence and calling him a fucking moron at the limit of my lungs. Half the neighborhood must have heard it. Ten o'clock at night, "fullie sik bro" car sub woofer blaring something not even discernible as music, right opposite my kitchen window, which is rattling; can't even properly hear the TV in the living room, FFS. Has been nice a quiet since though.

   
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Offline Uup

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #96 on: September 16, 2014, 04:52:15 am »



[ In a "Crocodile Dundee" voice ]

That's not a capacitor...

This is a capacitor!




« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 05:15:41 am by Uup »
Ununpentium
 

Offline bktemp

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #97 on: September 16, 2014, 06:28:25 am »



[ In a "Crocodile Dundee" voice ]

That's not a capacitor...

This is a capacitor!



That's also not a capacitor...

This is a capacitor!
 

Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #98 on: September 16, 2014, 09:29:36 am »
That's also not a capacitor...

This is a capacitor!

Oh, please.

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Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline nitro2k01

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #99 on: September 16, 2014, 10:17:36 am »
Oh, please.

Tim
While the capacitance is massive, I'm concerned about all arcing that happens all the time. On the plus side, the self-healing is excellent.
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Offline moemoe

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #100 on: September 16, 2014, 10:30:37 am »
Some time ago I read this article: http://www.spiegel.de/auto/fahrkultur/db-drag-racing-autos-mit-getunten-soundanlagen-a-990410.html (sorry, it's german).

But what I rememberd it is this statement:
Quote
Enttäuscht war er auch von den amerikanischen Aufmotzern: "Als ich gesehen habe, wie schlecht die mit dem Material umgehen, hätte ich denen direkt in den Arsch treten können." Nachdem die Weltmeisterschaften in den vergangenen Jahren online ausgetragen wurden, Europäer und Amerikaner sich also zum Wettbrummen über das Internet zusammenschalteten, haben die Amis die WM inzwischen abgeschafft. "Vermutlich auch deshalb, weil wir Europäer einfach zu stark sind", glaubt Müller.

Quick translation:

Quote
He was also disappointed by the american tuners: "When I did see how badly they treated their material, I immediately wanted to kick their ass. After a virtual world championship via internet over the last years, the Americans now disestablished their participation. One reason could be, that the Europeans are just too good, Müller thinks

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Offline SeanB

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #101 on: September 16, 2014, 06:52:09 pm »

This is a capacitor!



I picked up bigger ones than that at the roadside as scrap. 4700uF 450V.

Today a 1uF 200VAC/250VDC 0.1% standard capacitor in a box, bought at the scrapyard with another 24kg of other stuff for $9. There were a whole lot of decade boxes as well, but those had already met the not so gentle treatment.
 

Offline Falcon69

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #102 on: September 17, 2014, 01:08:03 am »
I used to be involved in alot of this car stereo stuff.

I'm 40 now, and sadly, I'm often finding myself saying, "sorry, what did you say?"

Wish I could go back now and build a bigger one!  Then that way, I wouldn't have to hear (or somewhat hear) what anyone has to say these days!
 

Offline Falcon69

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #103 on: September 17, 2014, 02:43:58 am »
Seriously though.

The SPL/DB competitions that are held all over the USA are just amazing.  The amount of sound that comes out of some of these vehicles is just overwhelming.

You can be 100ft away, and watch the hairs on your chest move from the sound. 

When the competition is held, the Deck (stereo) is usually placed out of the vehicle a certain amount of feet away, or is operated by a remote.  To sit inside of these vehicles without hearing protection, can and will damage eardrums.  You saw in one of those videos of that girl/guy's hair moving. imagine the sound pressure of 10 fold doing that to your ear drums.  It's really amazing the air pressure or displacement some of these 12 or 15 inch woofers can do.

Looking at some of these vehicles, they aren't even street legal anymore. They come in on trailers most of them.  the Windows, especially the Windshield, are Thick Plexiglass and pop riveted or bolted on.  Some of these vehicles run multiple Alternators and Batteries. Huge Capacitor Banks to deliver the quick power needed for when those multiple amplifiers draw power for when the bass notes hit.  If you look in one of the videos another member linked, you can see the windshield vibrating and moving like an inch.  You can also see that same windshield has duct tape all over it. LOL

Alma Gates, rest her soul, what an old women who was seriously involved in alot of these competitions.  I remember one competition I went to, where her vehicle hit over 185db.  That was many years ago. I'm sure today, vehicles are louder then that.

But, on the flip side, these competitions don't just offer SPL/DB competing vehicles. They offer vehicles competing against each other for sound quality, and some of these vehicles are just, well, just WOW! Listening to some of these vehicles, makes you wish you could go drop $30,000 on a system for your own vehicle, the sound is so clean.

I had a vehicle that was pushing 6000 watts.  I had to run a second battery, as well as a dedicated high efficient alternator to keep the system going.  As a precaution, I used an RV relay that turned off connection to the vehicles main battery if the ignition was turned off, that way, If I had i had listened to the stereo to long with the ignition turned off, I could still start the vehicle when the battery had run dead.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #104 on: September 17, 2014, 04:26:03 am »
I wonder what they would be able to do once they start hacking hybrids and EVs...
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Offline tom66

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #105 on: September 17, 2014, 08:37:45 am »
Oh, please.

Tim


The capacitance of earth is only about 700uF.
 

Offline Uup

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #106 on: September 17, 2014, 01:47:36 pm »
I picked up bigger ones than that at the roadside as scrap. 4700uF 450V.

Today a 1uF 200VAC/250VDC 0.1% standard capacitor in a box, bought at the scrapyard with another 24kg of other stuff for $9. There were a whole lot of decade boxes as well, but those had already met the not so gentle treatment.

I know larger capacitors are available. When that particular equipment came in the other day, seeing those two enormous 3300uF 400V capacitors reminded me of the OP's monster car amplifier pictures. So I posted for fun. The picture doesn’t convey how ridiculously large those capacitors really are!

The largest capacitors (physically) that I usually encounter in equipment passing the work bench are BHC (Now Kemet) 470uF 450V, but are difficult to source locally so have been using their 400V types. Working voltage is fine for the application.


Today, a rather unusual Japanese made power supply came in...






It has 6 10,000uF 100V capacitors for the AC to DC board.




What? You picked up a 4700uF 450V capacitor?

That's not a capacitor...

This is a capacitor!  :P



Well, actually 193 10F capacitors on the three lower PCBs of the DC to DC boards!

That’s 1,930,000,000uF if removed and individually totalled!

 :wtf:

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #107 on: September 17, 2014, 08:28:06 pm »
Oh, please.

Tim


The capacitance of earth is only about 700uF.

Yeah, but good luck finding any commercial part that'll do a billion volts. :D
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Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #108 on: September 18, 2014, 09:48:13 pm »


















« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 10:13:31 pm by AmmoJammo »
 

Offline Falcon69

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #109 on: September 18, 2014, 10:03:16 pm »
AmmoJammo,

Looks good.

if you don't already know this, (i learned when I was working for a company installing custom Stereos), if you mix sawdust in with resin, pretty thick, and smear it all over the box inside, it does one of two things....

1.  Seals up the inside of the box
2.  Creates a bumpy effect inside the box which will break up the sound waves inside the box so they don't reflect back into the subs.

Doing this will actually make your sound quality, DB, and SPL better.
 

Offline TheEnd

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #110 on: September 18, 2014, 11:27:31 pm »
1F caps are pretty common to fit in an install, some of the bigger multi battery installs have 1 capacitor per battery, although there's a big argument over whether they work or not.

Same old audiophile stuff, some people will say they can hear the difference, others will have supplys, multimeters and test gear and say they do nothing useful.

Remember when you could get a single blade razor, and now it's doubles, quads, and 6 blades these days, car audio caps have gone the same way.
If anyone can buy a 1F power cap, how do you stand out?

http://www.lanzar.com/sku/VCAP10000/Vector-100-Farad-16-Volt--Hybrid-Double-Capacitor-

100F cap, you wouldn't want to touch a spanner over the terminals on that...

Anyway, flashing blue LEDs... just take my money!!!!
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #111 on: September 18, 2014, 11:31:58 pm »
I feel bad for that car.

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Offline RobertoLG

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #112 on: September 18, 2014, 11:52:38 pm »
Looks really cool :D
 

Offline SirNick

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #113 on: September 19, 2014, 12:10:21 am »
OK, so.... that's a ported enclosure then?  What's the tuning frequency?  How much volume per driver?  Doesn't look like all that much, what with the enormous basket, although you're starting to run out of car as it is.

Car audio people tend to get batteries and caps confused.  A 1F cap will relieve some of the Vbatt droop for transients, but your dubstep bassline will just pull the cap down to the sustained battery voltage.  Either way, if the amp is built worth a crap, it has sufficient PSU capacitance internally to handle XXms loads for the kick drum's bite, and adding another externally isn't really necessary.
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #114 on: September 19, 2014, 01:41:22 am »
I always enjoy seeing those 2000W (peak) chinese music boxes on display, that dim the power supply LEDs even on quite gentle tracks.
I reckon they'd be hard pressed putting out 10W rms.
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Offline TMM

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #115 on: September 19, 2014, 06:19:49 am »
AmmoJammo,

Looks good.

if you don't already know this, (i learned when I was working for a company installing custom Stereos), if you mix sawdust in with resin, pretty thick, and smear it all over the box inside, it does one of two things....

1.  Seals up the inside of the box
2.  Creates a bumpy effect inside the box which will break up the sound waves inside the box so they don't reflect back into the subs.

Doing this will actually make your sound quality, DB, and SPL better.
That's funny because the SPL competitors i know swear by coating the inside of their boxes with resin to achieve a glass-smooth finish. They claim it is worth 0.1-0.2dB. I still think they are mad. A few millimeters deviation in surface finish isn't going to do anything substantial to bass frequencies which have wavelengths measured in meters.
 

Offline Falcon69

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #116 on: September 19, 2014, 08:40:14 am »
NO!  Not a smooth free finish.  That's why you throw sawdust in the resin and mix it before pouring it.

You want a bumpy and jagged effect.  That's where the waveforms will get broken up and not reflect back into the speaker.

A glass smooth finish is a No No
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #117 on: September 19, 2014, 09:56:34 am »
AmmoJammo,

Looks good.

if you don't already know this, (i learned when I was working for a company installing custom Stereos), if you mix sawdust in with resin, pretty thick, and smear it all over the box inside, it does one of two things....

1.  Seals up the inside of the box
2.  Creates a bumpy effect inside the box which will break up the sound waves inside the box so they don't reflect back into the subs.

Doing this will actually make your sound quality, DB, and SPL better.
That's funny because the SPL competitors i know swear by coating the inside of their boxes with resin to achieve a glass-smooth finish. They claim it is worth 0.1-0.2dB. I still think they are mad. A few millimeters deviation in surface finish isn't going to do anything substantial to bass frequencies which have wavelengths measured in meters.

smooth inside, rounded corners in the right places, and a flared/rounded exit on the port will always gain something, plus other things, like rounding the back edge of the woofer cutouts, removing the plastic covers from the subs magnets if they have one, and even duct taping parts of the box can all gain fractions of a decibel :)

In competition, you could win or lose by 0.1dB, and I've beaten people by 0.1 and 0.2dB before, so every 0.1dB counts!
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #118 on: September 19, 2014, 05:24:07 pm »
Quote
A few millimeters deviation in surface finish isn't going to do anything substantial ...

Whether they do it is not important;

Whether they are believed to do it is very important.
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Offline SirNick

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #119 on: September 19, 2014, 06:44:00 pm »
This stuff is actually regularly measured WRT to the front baffle of a speaker.  E.g., should the tweeter be placed symmetrically or offset to one side?  How close to the edge?  Should the edge be rounded?  What about rounding the edge of the cutout?

It is mostly all fractions-of-a-dB stuff, but the usual purpose is to smooth out (or at least distribute the imperfections in) the frequency response due to reflection and refraction.  Not so much affecting the absolute loudness.  Even chamfering the backside of a driver's cutout is intended more to prevent non-linear response, and usually only in the case where the baffle is a significant portion of the driver's depth.

For bass frequencies, the difference is mostly immeasurable -- somewhere in the noise.  Rounding the port is helpful -- mostly to prevent turbulence at the mouth from being distinctly audible.  (Hey, that could even give you a couple tenths of a dB lead.)

So yeah, all these things do contribute in minute ways, although I have my doubts that most aspiring Sonic Boomers have access to equipment with accuracy high enough to measure the differences in a repeatable fashion.  Just as likely to skew the results from a butterfly farting half a meter away.  Could be wrong though.
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #120 on: September 19, 2014, 08:27:03 pm »
OK, so.... that's a ported enclosure then?  What's the tuning frequency?  How much volume per driver?  Doesn't look like all that much, what with the enormous basket, although you're starting to run out of car as it is.

subs are inverted (for now anyway) box is 350 litres tuned to about 36Hz, although I believe its actually slightly lower, closer to 34hz :p

I would have rathered closer to 400 litres, but wanted to keep it below the window line.
 

Offline cimmo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #121 on: September 20, 2014, 07:32:50 am »
What a waste of human endeavour. :palm:
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Offline Falcon69

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #122 on: September 20, 2014, 07:49:26 am »
What a waste of human endeavour. :palm:

Nah, there's good satisfaction rolling by your x-girlfriend's at 3 in the morning on a Sunday night bumping your system..........then come back every half hour.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #123 on: September 20, 2014, 10:08:30 am »
4AM the next door guy will be waiting for you with a baseball bat, a shotgun, a jerry can of petrol and a lighter.

When the guys upstairs would not listen after 3 nights straight I went down and turned off the power. If I had been nasty _____________________________________________. Peace ensued, and they kept the volume down afterwards.
 

Offline jlmoon

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #124 on: September 23, 2014, 09:34:21 pm »



[ In a "Crocodile Dundee" voice ]

That's not a capacitor...

This is a capacitor!



That's also not a capacitor...

This is a capacitor!

no, that's a Door Stop!

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Offline diyaudio

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #125 on: September 26, 2014, 08:55:22 pm »







Interesting amplifier, car audio is no longer a popular sport like it used to back in the days, this is not a typical everyday amplifier. (im to old to find value in justifying putting a amplifier like this in an everyday vehicle.

The power electronics section is the most interesting to me, those six toroidal cores are wired in series approximately 25 volts each capable of at least 30 amps easily through each winding, the small core looks like a LC filter to suppress large AC ripples on the 14.4 DC bus front end as a result of a massive currents involved during loud playback.

The amplifier section is nothing innovative in terms of today's standards, its just a class-d amplifier probably a clocked modulator. majority this amplifier is made up of a DC TO DC converter with massive heat-sinking surface area.   
 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 09:02:11 pm by diyaudio »
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #126 on: September 26, 2014, 10:12:58 pm »
The insides look just like a power inverter... Because that's what it is...

A lot of cost can be cut out (and efficiency improved!) by using a common 120/240V generator run direct off the engine, then just rectifying that and driving an IGBT power stage direct off the HVDC bus.
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Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #127 on: October 10, 2014, 09:00:34 pm »
Here's another high powered amplifier I'm meant to be fixing... hmm...



I'm trying to source a replacement transformer... but failing that, what would you do?
 

Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: Its big! Car audio amplifier...
« Reply #128 on: October 10, 2014, 10:31:05 pm »
Niiice... ::)  At least it was obvious enough...maybe.

Easy enough to desolder (actually, desoldering that pile of wire called a transformer is probably the hardest thing..), take off the windings and find the burnt spot.  Apply tape (preferably mylar or kapton) and put it back together.

Tim
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