Author Topic: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.  (Read 3144 times)

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Online bd139

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2020, 11:27:33 pm »
It is pretty lousy security if oscilloscopes can be sneaked out of military facilities. Wonder what else was taken out. The caller's story smells fishy.

LOL it's really not. I worked for a big defence contractor and stuff kept getting nicked all the time. Then someone flew some planes into some buildings, we suddenly got turnstiles and huge concerete block crash fences, vehicle and person searches by MP5 wielding MoD police. Nothing ever went missing again!  :-DD

I can understand that an investigator would be hired to track down some expensive equipment, there are specialist asset recovery companies. What I am more skeptical about is that an investigator would expect people to just hand over stuff after being informed it is "stolen". Surely they would always get police involved, who would have a copy of a crime report detailing the serial numbers.

It probably works often enough and cheaply enough that it's worth a try. No one wants to involve a lawyer or courts because that eats into the profit on the asset recovery company.
 

Online Stray Electron

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2020, 11:38:17 pm »
Yep, I wouldn't do a thing until a court order shows up.

Yep, and maybe they will accompany that court order with a change of receiving.

  Not unless the OP purchased it KNOWING that it was stolen. Since the OP bought this via E-bay that would be a TOUGH charge to make stick.   Short of having audio or video tape of the OP and the seller discussing that the item was stolen, that would be a tough charge to make stick anyway.
 

Online thm_w

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2020, 11:41:26 pm »
   None of this story is adding up. You say that you got it from a local TE dealer that you know and trust. But if this item was stolen, then where did the dealer get it from?  Or is he running a stolen TE fencing operation?

   If the investigator was legit they would have come to you in person and shown ID, and not called you on the phone!

This is the same thing that happened in the Agilent ebay thread, everyone doubted the lawyers calls, emails, etc. It was all legit.

The equipment was given to a recycler to scrap, they sold it instead of scrapping it, so they wanted to recover the gear. I wouldn't be surprised if its a similar issue here.
 

Online james_s

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2020, 11:48:38 pm »
That's different than stolen. If it's stolen property you can be arrested for receiving or possession of stolen property. If it was sold and intended to be scrapped, I'd tell them to piss off and say I don't have it anymore. I'm morally opposed to scrapping useful equipment and wish there was a way to prosecute those who are so wasteful with taxpayer purchased items. It's paid for by the public and should be available to members of the public when it is disposed of, otherwise I don't want my tax money paying for it.
 
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Online Stray Electron

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2020, 02:58:36 am »


This is the same thing that happened in the Agilent ebay thread, everyone doubted the lawyers calls, emails, etc. It was all legit.

The equipment was given to a recycler to scrap, they sold it instead of scrapping it, so they wanted to recover the gear. I wouldn't be surprised if its a similar issue here.

   I'll respond to your last statement first; The big difference here is that the OP got a phone call whereas the OP of the 'Scary HP Letter" thread got a letter from a real lawyer.  In fact several people on this forum got the same letter, including your's truely.  The fact this OP got a phone call and not a visit from some kind of LE tells me that this is a scam.

   In response to your first statement: I got one of those letters too and that letter was never "legit" IMO even though it came from a lawyer.  The Scary Letter claimed the items contained "HP Intellectual Property" and told the owners not to sell the item.  There was no inference that the items were stolen, instead they implied that the owner's couldn't own the items that they had legitimately purchased due to containing IP. And we still don't know what the true story behind all of it was, someone, not HP and not the lawyer, speculated that the items had been fire damaged and that they were possibly damaged and that Agilent, now Keysight, was worried that the 10 year used items bearing the name HEWLETT PACKARD and sold by a surplus dealer would somehow damage Keysight's reputation!  I guess the IP argument included the B&K meter that the lawyer included in the letter as well!

    While both of these events involve the purchase of used equipment and someone (not the seller) wanting it "back", the similarities end there.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 03:03:22 am by Stray Electron »
 

Offline mcovington

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2020, 03:15:30 am »
I think the really key thing is that you are doing well to have a lawyer, and in any case your local police should be involved.  An "investigator" from you-don't-know-where might not be legitimate.

It could well be legitimate, but they should have to convince your local police as well as you.  If the property is really stolen, they need to report it stolen to the police having jurisdiction at your location.
 

Online Gregg

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2020, 03:50:15 am »
I doubt that a single scope would be something the navy would track as missing unless it was part of a sting and maybe the seller of this scope was being investigated for much more than just a scope.

I was in the US navy from 1968 to1972 most of the time aboard an aircraft carrier.  Each type of airplane was in a semi-autonomous group that was only assigned to the ship for a single deployment.  At the beginning of a deployment, the air wing squadrons got all new tools, parts test equipment and whatever they wanted and loaded it all aboard so as to not have to ship it halfway across the globe.  Those of us that kept the ship running, what was called the engineering department, had to scrounge what we could and had limited budgets to buy things we might need.  But there were lots of places to hoard stuff in such a big ship and hopefully a predecessor had stashed some good items out of sight of the squeaky clean and squared away ranks.
When the ship was headed back to the US after a deployment, the aircraft were flown off the ship and sent to various naval air stations around the US and the support people packed up whatever support equipment to be shipped to where the planes were going.  A couple of days before the ship was scheduled to reach port, tons and tons of perfectly good tools, parts etc. were dumped overboard because they didn’t want to bother with it.

During the first deployment, I found out making friends with the air-wing maintenance people could pay big dividends in intercepting tools to be thrown overboard at the end of a deployment. (It was amazing what a bottle of booze would buy on a dry ship that had been at sea for many weeks.)  Nobody seemed to track any of this stuff.  I would only assume that when an air-wing would be assigned to a ship from a naval air base, they would just leave tons of stuff behind.
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2020, 04:14:46 am »
  Not unless the OP purchased it KNOWING that it was stolen. Since the OP bought this via E-bay that would be a TOUGH charge to make stick.

Having the stolen item is all that's required to have a change of receiving laid, it's just a bit of paper work. Sure, it might not stick IF you can afford the lawyer to defend you, eventually anyway.

The only rights you actually have in the US are the ones you can afford to assert....
 

Offline Marck

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2020, 12:21:15 pm »
I wonder if the item is legitimately stolen equipment that the Navy would want it back simply for secure destruction?  Depending on who in the navy managed to loose this particular bit of TE. 

Sometimes it’s just easier to be agreeable in these situations once it’s proven as legitimate. 

I know that customers of the past have applied significant pressure to eBay sellers that have made the mistake of listing items that where able to be identified as belonging to them.  Even though as a $$ value to the owners is close to 0.

M
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2020, 02:12:52 am »
Sounds suspiciciously like the following:-

"There is something wrong with your computer/I am from Windows",
 
"I am from Telstra, your phone is about to be cut off" 

or

 "This is the Australian Tax Office, there is a warrant for your arrest for non payment of back taxes, unless you send "X" thousand dollars to this account"

All usually delivered in an Indian accent! ;D
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2020, 02:42:58 am »
If the claim that the item is the subject of a theft is legit, then (as I see it) it's value is, essentially, irrelevant.   It is evidence.

However, a verbal communication would be insufficient for me to hand it over.  I would demand a paper trail - with provable bona fides.
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2020, 06:51:36 am »
After four days of speculation, wouldn't it be nice to hear some facts from the OP how this matter progressed further?  ::)
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2020, 06:54:39 am »
After four days of speculation, wouldn't it be nice to hear some facts from the OP how this matter progressed further?  ::)

Yeah and since when is it a o-scope not a CRO?

 :scared:
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2020, 07:05:38 am »
they should send a car with some officers if its legit. they love to see the world and travel after all

if someone gets off their ass to actually do something rather then send menacing emails, they might actually fix the problem. tell him you want to speak to an actual navy officer.. save the investigation some money instead of dealing with hourly billed 'investigator' contractors lol. for all you know someone is scamming/intimidating the supply house

something along the lines of the officer who supervises the equipment etc
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 07:10:36 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2020, 07:06:42 am »

... and since when is it a o-scope not a CRO?


Cultural differences.  Don't be so parochial.
 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2020, 12:10:36 pm »
After four days of speculation, wouldn't it be nice to hear some facts from the OP how this matter progressed further?  ::)

Yeah and since when is it a o-scope not a CRO?

 :scared:
From the  description, it is a fairly modern DSO, so probably doesn't use a CRT,  if so, by definition, it isn't a CRO.

Edit:- I take it all back--- his previous  "vintage" oscilloscope is very likely to be a CRO.

"o-scope" always sounds to me like a European term, though, & it does sound strange, coming from someone in the USA.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 12:13:58 pm by vk6zgo »
 
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Online Stray Electron

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2020, 06:28:09 pm »
  Not unless the OP purchased it KNOWING that it was stolen. Since the OP bought this via E-bay that would be a TOUGH charge to make stick.

Having the stolen item is all that's required to have a change of receiving laid, it's just a bit of paper work. Sure, it might not stick IF you can afford the lawyer to defend you, eventually anyway.

The only rights you actually have in the US are the ones you can afford to assert....

   Have you even been to the US? Or have you been in court in the US?  I've defended myself twice in a US court and once sued someone else (again representing myself) and I've won every case and every time against a professional attorney.  Court is like any other area of endeavor, you need to learn your subject and prepare yourself properly.  EVERY county court house in America has a free public law library that is freely available to the public so there's no excuse not to be able to represent yourself, at least in this country.

  Contrary to your ill informed opinion, in the US you shouldn't be charged with receiving stolen property unless unless you knew, or had reason to believe, that the item was stolen when you bought it.  Usually the worst that happens in the US is that the police will come and back the item back and return it to the lawful owner and the buyer is out his purchase price. But in that event, the buyer can go back and sue the seller.
 
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Offline imo

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2020, 06:36:22 pm »
Quote
Nemo dat quod non habet, literally meaning "no one gives what they don't have" is a legal rule, sometimes called the nemo dat rule, that states that the purchase of a possession from someone who has no ownership right to it also denies the purchaser any ownership title. It is equivalent to the civil (continental) "Nemo plus iuris ad alium transferre potest quam ipse habet" rule, which means "one cannot transfer to another more rights than he has"..
In American law, a bona fide purchaser who unknowingly purchases and subsequently sells stolen goods will, at common law, be held liable in trover for the full market value of those goods as of the date of conversion. Since the true owner retains legal title, the seller is liable even in a chain of successive bona fide purchasers (i.e., the true owner can successfully sue the fifth bona fide purchaser in trover).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 06:48:11 pm by imo »
 

Online Stray Electron

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2020, 07:36:16 pm »
  So you use Wikipedia for legal advice?   :-DD

  Being "liable for the market value"of a stolen item is NOT the same thing as being criminally prosecuted for (possibly unwitting) possession of a stolen item!

   "the seller is liable "  just means that the purchaser (and any subsequent purchasers) have to return the item to the legal owner  (usually the case), or possibly, pay the owner the value of the item.  I've already covered that.

   I don't see anything in that article that indicates that the buyer of a stolen article can be criminally prosecuted. In fact, nothing in that article even states that the thief can be prosecuted. 
 

Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2020, 11:06:15 pm »
Stray Electron has it right.  None of us are lawyers, and real lawyers would be hesitant to opine in this forum for a variety of reasons.  Having said that I will point out that "unknowing possession of stolen property" went out the window when OP was notified.  While there is still a chance that this is a fraud, not stolen property and due diligence is warranted in confirming that, in general from that notification on any actions that OP takes to retain possession are suspect.  Lawyers love to answer questions like that.  At their usual rate.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2020, 11:18:11 pm »
If it was me i would

- Go into the navy and ask someone there to verify the story is genuine. They should be able to do that with some phone calls and should be happy to help verify that someone isn't pretending to be from the Navy.

- If it was actually stolen give it back once you get some official paperwork on letterhead from Navy saying it was stolen and that you were forced to give it back to them.

- Show this paperwork to Paypal. As others have said you should be within the window for a refund and i cant see them rejecting an offical letter from the navy.
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2020, 11:54:45 pm »
These would be my expectations

To be asked to return something without financial reimbursement, would require a provision of proof to the person having to return the item.
If that proof is not convincing then it needs to be verified in a court of law, resulting in a court order.
Until the latter is provided the item should remain with the person who purchased it unless the item is itself an illegal item.
All of the above should be carried out at the expense of the person or persons wanting the item returned.

Anyone can make a claim, including police but the claim must surely be backed by law and the due process required by it
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2020, 08:43:35 am »
Sounds suspiciciously like the following:-

"There is something wrong with your computer/I am from Windows",
 
"I am from Telstra, your phone is about to be cut off" 

or

 "This is the Australian Tax Office, there is a warrant for your arrest for non payment of back taxes, unless you send "X" thousand dollars to this account"

All usually delivered in an Indian accent! ;D




If they catch me in the middle of an electronical troubleshoot ball breaker  |O  and I've tripped over something to get to the phone..   >:( 

I blast them with an awesome perfected drawling Indian accent that it's unethical and annoying to be cold calling a fellow cold caller,
especially whilst in the middle of a heated cold call to a live prospect about to sign up for something they believe will save and or make them money.. ( :palm:)

The peaved, low life, phone glued, call center knuckle draggers always hang up  :P

----------------

OP may be getting touched either by the seller or one of his mates running a 'return MIA property to Navy' scam and resell loop  :popcorn:

« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 08:54:34 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2020, 03:57:47 am »
It's looking like posting on eevblog is not allowed from jail. :)

What happened?
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 
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Offline Szumi

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Re: Just had to hand over my new to me o-scope to the navy.
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2020, 08:49:59 pm »
One night we loaded up most of a AWG-10a radar, at least the part in the nose of a F-4J, in to my station wagon to take over to IMA maint as it suffered salt water damage from missing fasteners in panels.  IMA was going to power it up on their test bench after we washed it in fresh water and set it to out dry on the flightline.

My bud and I were hungry, we detoured to a 7-11 off base to get get some lunch (we were working midnights) on the way back to base it struck me that I probably shouldn't have done that. 

 


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