Author Topic: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair  (Read 15000 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kilrah

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1855
  • Country: ch
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2016, 08:14:35 am »
Even if that were true, the fact that those workers voluntarily opted to work at such jobs would tell you your actions of not buying from their factories would simply condemn them to even worse living standards.
They don't accept them becasue they are good but becasue they have no better choice, but exactly 0% would refuse better conditions.

That is the same kind of thing that makes repair vs replace tough.
Yeah, but it's not repair that is insanely expensive, it's rather the product that's insanely cheap and undervalued!

A large facility able to service much of the world is likely to be more efficient than 100 plus smaller ones each serving one country. 
That's if you only consider economic efficiency.

For me real efficiency would be one that improves your quality of life, not cash flow. Even if all electronic products cost 4 times as much as a result I don't think it would be a problem. Yes you couldn't afford them that easily, but frankly, who needs? There's no reason you need to be able to buy a top of the line phone with a week's pay or change TV after 2 years like now.

The current price lowballing only causes the whole world to work much more than needed to push out huge quantities of absolutely superfluous cheap product. We could very well have what was suggested a century ago, i.e. only have to work 2 days per week to create what's needed for a prosperous society thanks to the massive increases in processes in all fields and just spend the rest enjoying good time... but no, some powerful bosses have decided for us that you should rather work your ass off for about nothing so they can pocket the results from the higher sales... the whole system is highly stupid, but unfortunately nearly everybody accepts it as it is instead of thinking a bit and realizing it could be very different and actually more efficient according to a more important metric...
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 08:25:20 am by Kilrah »
 

Offline iampoor

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 500
  • Country: us
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2016, 08:27:02 am »

For me real efficiency would be one that improves your quality of life, not cash flow. Even if all electronic products cost 4 times as much as a result I don't think it would be a problem. Yes you couldn't afford them that easily, but frankly, who needs? There's no reason you need to be able to buy a top of the line phone with a week's pay or change TV after 2 years like now.

I think the average consumer has had too much exposure to commoditized electronics, and wouldnt feel the same way....
Mot consumers I know still "cant believe" how "expensive" consumer products are.  |O
 

Offline station240

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 905
  • Country: au
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #52 on: May 14, 2016, 08:35:31 am »
video that sums up a lot of the problems
Harveys TV Repair Shop Final Days
A Short Documentary Harvey's TV and Stereo Los Angeles


Not only are chinese made goods too cheap, but so is the postage as the government subsidise it.
 
The following users thanked this post: Kilrah

Offline Kilrah

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1855
  • Country: ch
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2016, 08:40:46 am »
Mot consumers I know still "cant believe" how "expensive" consumer products are.  |O
Perfect example of biasing...

But if it just "was that way" they'd have no other choice and wouldn't moan about it beyond initial reaction.

It's like the chain stores now importing some fruit form the other side of the world so that there are some all year round instead of the 2-month period they'd be available locally... when asked they always answer "well the customer demands!"... But that's complete bullshit, because if there were none nobody would come to them and ask for some. For sure once you put some on the shelves people will take them, but that's artificial "demand" you've created, not a real desire from the consumer. Of course now people are used to constant availability, but it wouldn't take much to teach them why there isn't any if that stopped. It only goes on because there's money to make due to - again - the "real" value of things like work and transport being grossly undervalued.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 08:43:07 am by Kilrah »
 

Offline dannyf

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8229
  • Country: 00
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2016, 10:46:20 am »
Quote
For me real efficiency would be one that improves your quality of life,

Once you have to redefine commonly accepted terminology, you know you are building your arguments on shaky ground.

================================
https://dannyelectronics.wordpress.com/
 

Offline dannyf

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8229
  • Country: 00
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2016, 10:51:15 am »
Quote
Harveys TV Repair Shop Final Days

The guy at beginning of the video was spot on when he said this is a 3rd world country. :)

Quote
Not only are chinese made goods too cheap,

Spot on.

Quote
but so is the postage as the government subsidise it.

That's one of the urban legends that get passed on from generation to generation.

still doesn't make it true.
================================
https://dannyelectronics.wordpress.com/
 

Offline dannyf

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8229
  • Country: 00
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2016, 01:15:56 pm »
Quote
They don't accept them becasue they are good but becasue they have no better choice, but exactly 0% would refuse better conditions.

I suspect that your perspective on this will change when others take away your job because they think you are underpaid.

My fundamental objection to this whole "fair labor" movement is that it is anything but fair. We sit in the comfort of our homes dictating to people thousands of miles away what is and what is not right for them is just the polar opposite of basic human freedom, democracy and self-determination.

Not to mention that many people behind this are motivated at shutting down competition in order to protect their own jobs.
================================
https://dannyelectronics.wordpress.com/
 

Offline sokoloff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1442
  • Country: us
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #57 on: May 14, 2016, 01:22:29 pm »
Quote
but so is the postage as the government subsidise it.

That's one of the urban legends that get passed on from generation to generation.

still doesn't make it true.
I think there's ample evidence that "ePacket" delivery is de facto subsidized by the USPS. (You might be arguing that the USPS isn't the "government", which is perhaps technically true. If you're arguing that there is no effective subsidy, I disagree.)

2014 USPS Inspector General study on ePacket provides plenty of directional evidence that ePacket is subsidized to the tune of about $1 per ePacket:

https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library-files/2015/ms-ar-14-002.pdf
 

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5154
  • Country: gb
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #58 on: May 14, 2016, 01:45:31 pm »
Quote
For me real efficiency would be one that improves your quality of life,

Once you have to redefine commonly accepted terminology, you know you are building your arguments on shaky ground.

He said "for me". That's not an argument that's on shaky ground, it's an expression of opinion. Just because his opinion differs from yours doesn't make it wrong (or right), just different.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3631
  • Country: us
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2016, 02:04:37 pm »

A large facility able to service much of the world is likely to be more efficient than 100 plus smaller ones each serving one country. 
That's if you only consider economic efficiency.

For me real efficiency would be one that improves your quality of life, not cash flow. Even if all electronic products cost 4 times as much as a result I don't think it would be a problem. Yes you couldn't afford them that easily, but frankly, who needs? There's no reason you need to be able to buy a top of the line phone with a week's pay or change TV after 2 years like now.

The current price lowballing only causes the whole world to work much more than needed to push out huge quantities of absolutely superfluous cheap product. We could very well have what was suggested a century ago, i.e. only have to work 2 days per week to create what's needed for a prosperous society thanks to the massive increases in processes in all fields and just spend the rest enjoying good time... but no, some powerful bosses have decided for us that you should rather work your ass off for about nothing so they can pocket the results from the higher sales... the whole system is highly stupid, but unfortunately nearly everybody accepts it as it is instead of thinking a bit and realizing it could be very different and actually more efficient according to a more important metric...

While I qualitatively agree with you, I don't think it is that simple.  For example I find that the smart phone and computer and internet really do contribute to the quality of my life.  Through things like this forum and access to far more information than was ever available from the library.  I don't update mine and throw it away every couple of years.  While a similar level of technology and compactness could be designed and manufactured on a smaller and more local basis, I think you are underestimating the cost difference.  I used to work in the defense industry, a market which has many of the qualities you desire (made in relatively small quantities and often designed to last and be repairable).  While most are aware of the insanely high costs in this market, few are aware of the low margins.  In the US at least they are set by law at rates that make most commercial companies walk away laughing.

Also you should look into a little economic theory on the velocity of money.  There may be other ways, but it isn't obvious.
 

Offline Halcyon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4016
  • Country: au
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #60 on: May 14, 2016, 02:12:33 pm »
Made in China or not, this is where people need to start exercising their rights under consumer law. I get that each country is different, however at least in Australia the consumer law is quite strong. I also find a lot of retailers and sales people don't understand it, let alone know about the legislation surrounding consumer rights, refunds, exchanges etc...

It's worthwhile getting to know your rights in your country. For example, in Australia if you have a product that is not fit for purpose, not reasonably durable or suffers a major failure, then you're entitled to a refund or replacement by either the manufacturer or the reseller (at their expense) -- And it's your choice which you'd prefer, not anyone else’s. I recently argued this after buying an NEC Professional LCD display which was being sold as a "professional TV". It turned out the particular model which was sold in this country didn't actually have a TV tuner in it (the model sold in Japan did). This was deemed as a "major failure" as I wouldn't have purchased the unit had I known this in the first place. The reseller picked this up at no cost to me and refunded the total amount within a few days. Needless to say their website changed pretty damn quickly.

Back to the original topic, if something isn't of "acceptable quality" then you should be entitled to a full refund or replacement. The term "acceptable" depends on the product, needs to be "reasonable" and might already be pre-determined in your relevant laws. Manufacturer's warranty is often irrelevant. Apple has got unstuck in AU for their "extended warranties" which offers little (or no more) protection than the Australian Consumer Law already does for free to all consumers.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 02:21:03 pm by Halcyon »
 

Offline edy

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2167
  • Country: ca
    • DevHackMod Channel
Re: The insane cost of consumer electronics repair
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2016, 01:50:08 am »
Harvey's TV documentary.... Interesting to watch. I like the last bit about blown caps, internet and making sure that other parts aren't blown. And so much of what this guy is saying rings true from personal experience, both with my Samsung and Philips. The Samsung had bad caps, and my Philips had actually a number of diodes, transistors and other components go (but the caps were actually fine). Harvey's TV guy is spot on. Here are my repair videos:

PHILIPS (which had a number of issues on the power board, about 2 year old when failed):



SAMSUNG (a couple of bad caps, about 2.5 years old when failed):




And my parent's RCA TV that we watched for several decades, that I grew up on.... looked something like this picture below. It was like a piece of furniture. We bought it in 1980. It had a little problem at one point, it would turn off and you'd see this pattern flicker in the middle of the screen (like a red/blue/green flower rotating)... then the colors would converge into a white spot and then fade. We had that fixed and the TV lasted another decade.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 02:00:04 am by edy »
YouTube: www.devhackmod.com LBRY: https://lbry.tv/@winegaming:b
"Ye cannae change the laws of physics, captain" - Scotty
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf