Keysight is upping their game with software license agreements

[TheSteve]

I went to update some Windows based Keysight FieldFox remote control software and thought I'd do a quick scan of the license agreement. I see it has changed quite a bit from the previous version. This specific software is free to use so I'd guess this is a new generic license agreement they are using for everything. It certainly is aggressive - especially the "Audit" section. Also lots of stuff regarding piracy has been added.

Here is the older agreement:

KEYSIGHT TECHNOLOGIES, INC. SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT

ATTENTION:  DOWNLOADING, COPYING, PUBLICLY DISTRIBUTING, OR USING THIS SOFTWARE IS SUBJECT TO THE AGREEMENT SET FORTH BELOW.

TO DOWNLOAD, STORE, INSTALL, OR RUN THE SOFTWARE, YOU MUST FIRST AGREE TO KEYSIGHT’S SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT BELOW.  IF YOU HAVE READ, UNDERSTAND AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT BELOW, YOU SHOULD CLICK ON THE “AGREE” BOX AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE.  THE SOFTWARE WILL THEN BE DOWNLOADED TO OR INSTALLED ON YOUR COMPUTER.

IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT BELOW, YOU SHOULD CLICK ON THE “DO NOT AGREE” BOX AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE AND CANCEL THE DOWNLOAD OR INSTALLATION OF THE SOFTWARE.   IF YOU HAVE PURCHASED THE SOFTWARE FROM KEYSIGHT, YOU MAY RETURN THE SOFTWARE FOR A FULL REFUND, OR, IF THE SOFTWARE IS SUPPLIED AS PART OF ANOTHER PRODUCT, YOU MAY RETURN THE ENTIRE PRODUCT FOR A FULL REFUND. 

Software.  “Software” means one or more computer programs in object code format, whether stand-alone or bundled with other products, and related documentation.  It does NOT include programs in source code format.

License Grant.  Keysight grants you a non-exclusive license to download one copy of the Software, and to store or run that copy of the Software for internal use and purposes in accordance with this Agreement and the documentation provided with the Software.  Such documentation may include license terms provided by Keysight’s third party suppliers, which will apply to the use of the Software and take precedence over these license terms.  In the absence of documentation specifying the applicable license, you may store or run one copy of the Software on one machine or instrument.  If the Software is otherwise licensed for concurrent or network use, you may not allow more than the maximum number of authorized users to access and use the Software concurrently.   

License Restrictions.  You may make copies or adaptations of the Software for archival purposes or when copying or adaptation is an essential step in the authorized use of the Software, but for no other purpose. You must reproduce all copyright notices in the original Software on all permitted copies or adaptations.  You may not copy the Software onto any public or distributed network.

Upgrades.  This license does not entitle you to receive upgrades, updates or technical support.  Such services may be purchased separately. 

Ownership.  The Software and all copies thereof are owned and copyrighted by Keysight or its third party suppliers.  Keysight and its third party suppliers retain all right, title and interest in the Software.  Keysight and its third party suppliers may protect their respective rights in the Software in the event of any violation of this Agreement. 

No Disassembly.  You may not disassemble or otherwise modify the Software without written authorization from Keysight, except as permitted by law.  Upon request, you will provide Keysight with reasonably detailed information regarding any permitted disassembly or modification.

High Risk Activities.  The Software is not specifically written, designed, manufactured or intended for use in the planning, construction, maintenance or direct operation of a nuclear facility, nor for use in on line control or fail safe operation of aircraft navigation, control or communication systems, weapon systems or direct life support systems.

Transfer. You may transfer the license granted to you here provided that you deliver all copies of the Software to the transferee along with this Agreement and pay any applicable fees to the extent permissible under local laws.  The transferee must accept this Agreement as a condition to any transfer. Your license to use the Software will terminate upon transfer. 

Termination.  Keysight may terminate this license upon notice for breach of this Agreement.  Upon termination, you must immediately destroy all copies of the Software.

Export Requirements.  If you export, re-export or import Software, technology or technical data licensed hereunder, you assume responsibility for complying with applicable laws and regulations and for obtaining required export and import authorizations.  Keysight may terminate this license immediately if you are in violation of any applicable laws or regulations.

U.S. Government Restricted Rights.  Software and technical data rights granted to the federal government include only those rights customarily provided to end user customers.  Keysight provides this customary commercial license in Software and technical data pursuant to FAR 12.211 (Technical Data) and 12.212 (Computer Software) and, for the Department of Defense, DFARS 252.227-7015 (Technical Data - Commercial Items) and DFARS 227.7202-3 (Rights in Commercial  Computer Software or Computer Software Documentation).

NO WARRANTY.    TO THE EXTENT ALLOWED BY LOCAL LAW, AND EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT KEYSIGHT HAS PROVIDED A SPECIFIC WRITTEN WARRANTY APPLICABLE TO THIS PRODUCT, THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED TO YOU "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, WHETHER ORAL OR WRITTEN, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. KEYSIGHT SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, NON-INFRINGEMENT AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.   SHOULD THE SOFTWARE PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE ENTIRE RISK AND COST RESULTING FROM OR RELATING TO THE DEFECT.  SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW EXCLUSIONS OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS, SO THE ABOVE EXCLUSION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.  YOU MAY HAVE OTHER RIGHTS THAT VARY ACCORDING TO LOCAL LAW. 

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.  TO THE EXTENT ALLOWED BY LOCAL LAW, IN NO EVENT WILL KEYSIGHT OR ITS SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES OR SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR DIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHER DAMAGES (INCLUDING LOST PROFIT, LOST DATA, OR DOWNTIME COSTS), ARISING OUT OF THE USE, INABILITY TO USE, OR THE RESULTS OF USE OF THE SOFTWARE, WHETHER BASED IN WARRANTY, CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHER LEGAL THEORY, AND WHETHER OR NOT ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.  YOUR USE OF THE SOFTWARE IS ENTIRELY AT YOUR OWN RISK.   SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR DAMAGES, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. 

Applicable Law.  Disputes arising in connection with this Agreement will be governed by the laws of the United States and of the State of New York, without regard to choice of law provisions.  The United Nations Convention for Contracts for the International Sale of Goods will not apply to this Agreement.

Unenforceability.  To the extent that any provision of this Agreement is determined to be illegal or unenforceable, the remainder of this Agreement will remain in full force and effect.

Entire Agreement.  This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between you and Keysight, and supersedes any previous communications, representations or agreements between the parties, whether oral or written, regarding transactions hereunder except for a specific warranty issued by Keysight with regard to this product.  Your additional or different terms and conditions will not apply.  This Agreement may not be changed except by an amendment signed by an authorized representative of each party.



Here is the updated agreement:

KEYSIGHT SOFTWARE END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
ATTENTION: THE SOFTWARE IS SUBJECT TO THE END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (“EULA”) SET FORTH BELOW.
TO INSTALL OR USE THE SOFTWARE, YOU MUST FIRST AGREE TO THIS EULA. IF THIS EULA IS PRESENTED TO YOU ELECTRONICALLY AND IF YOU HAVE READ, UNDERSTAND, AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ITS TERMS, CLICK “AGREE”. IF THIS EULA IS PRESENTED TO YOU IN A HARD COPY FORMAT, BY POWERING ON AND USING THE COMPUTER, INSTRUMENT, OR MACHINE, YOU AGREE THAT YOU HAVE READ, UNDERSTAND, AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ITS TERMS.
Translations. Translations of this EULA are found at: www.keysight.com/find/sweula. <http://www.keysight.com/find/sweula>
Software. “Software” means a single copy of one or more computer programs, whether stand-alone or bundled with other products or solutions, and related documentation, including any online or electronic documentation, data, and license files.
License Grant. Keysight Technologies, Inc. or Keysight Technologies Singapore Sales (collectively, “Keysight”) grants you a limited, non-exclusive license to use, in accordance with one of the license types listed below, the Software for the Term (as defined below), subject to the terms and conditions of this EULA and full payment of any applicable fees:
Node Locked (“fixed”) license. If you have obtained a Node Locked license, you may install one copy of the Software on one computer, instrument, or machine and use the Software only on that computer, instrument, or machine for your internal business use. You may not display or access the Software on a separate computer.
Transportable license. If you have obtained a Transportable license, you may use one copy of the Software on any single computer, instrument, or machine at one time for your internal business use. You may move the right to use the Software to a different computer, instrument, or machine using methods made available by Keysight, for your internal business use, provided only one copy is in use at any one time.
Floating license. If you have obtained a Floating license, you may install one or more copies of the Software on any computer, instrument, or machine within your internal computer network or on dedicated server resources provided by a third party for your internal business use, provided the total number of users who are accessing or using any of the Software at the same time does not exceed the maximum number of licenses.
You may find the type of license you obtained, the Term of your license, and the number of licenses, if applicable, in documentation associated with the Software. “Term” means either a set amount of time (an expiring license) or a Perpetual license. For Node Locked licenses, “Perpetual” means the lifetime of the computer, instrument, or machine. For Transportable and Floating licenses, “Perpetual” means the right to use the license indefinitely. In the absence of documentation specifying the applicable license, you have a Node Locked license with a Perpetual Term.
License Restrictions.
No Copies. You may not make copies or adaptations of the Software except for backup and archival purposes or when copying or adaptation is an essential step in the licensed use of the Software, including correction of errors. You must reproduce all copyright and other legal notices in the original Software on all permitted copies or adaptations.

No Reverse Engineering. You may not decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, decrypt, modify, create derivative works, or disable security features of the Software, except to the extent any foregoing restriction is prohibited by applicable mandatory law or by licensing terms governing the use of open source components that may be included with the Software.

No Circumvention. The Software may include technological measures, whether in the Software or in bundled hardware or both, that are designed to prevent or detect unlicensed use of the Software. Circumvention of these technological measures is prohibited, except as expressly permitted by applicable mandatory law. Any attempt to circumvent technological measures may render the Software or certain features unusable or unstable and may prevent you from upgrading or updating the Software.

Limited Use. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary herein, you may not use the Software to develop products or distribute your own or a third-party’s application, a principal purpose of which, as reasonably determined by Keysight, is to compete with the Software, perform the same or similar functions as the Software, or which replaces any component of the Software. You may not disclose the results of any competitive analysis performed on the Software to any third party.

Network. Unless otherwise authorized by Keysight in writing, you may not use the Software on any network that permits remote access to licensed users located outside a one-mile radius of a single fixed geographic site and you may not permit third parties to use the Software in an on-demand computing environment.

No Public Network/Time Share. You may not copy the Software onto any public or distributed network, service bureau, or similar service, and you may not provide access (directly or indirectly) to the Software in any other manner via a web or network application. In addition, you may not sell, license, lease, rent, loan, or time share the Software. You also may not redistribute the Software or any part of the Software, other than as permitted under Section 9 below.

Licensed Users. Except as expressly provided herein, you may not permit any third party to have access to or otherwise use the Software. Licensed users are your employees, authorized agents, representatives, subcontractors, and consultants acting on your behalf and for your internal business use. You are responsible and fully liable for compliance with and breach of this EULA by your licensed users.
Third-Party Software.

General. The Software may contain third-party software subject to third-party notices, additional terms and conditions, or both. Such required third-party software notices and additional terms and conditions can be found in the documentation associated with the Software. You have all rights necessary to use the Software as permitted in Sections 3 and 4. To the extent your use exceeds the grants and restrictions in Sections 3 and 4, third-party license terms will apply and take precedence.

Separation of Components. Except as required by included open source software licenses or expressly licensed by Keysight, the Software is licensed as a single product and its component parts may not be separated for any other use.
Upgrades. This EULA does not entitle you to receive upgrades, updates, or technical support. Such services may be included or purchased separately. The terms of this EULA govern any upgrades or updates provided by Keysight unless such upgrades or updates are accompanied by a separate license agreement in which case the terms of that license agreement will govern. Upgrades and updates may be provided if and when available.

Ownership. The Software and all copies thereof are licensed and not sold to you. The Software and all copies thereof are owned and copyrighted by Keysight or its third- party suppliers and are protected by copyright laws and other intellectual property laws and treaties. Keysight and its third-party suppliers retain all right, title, and interest in the Software. Keysight and its third-party suppliers may protect their respective rights in the Software in the event of any violation of this EULA. Any comments, suggestions, improvements, or other communications from you to Keysight regarding the Software (“Feedback”) will become the sole property of Keysight. Keysight may use the Feedback and practice the intellectual property relating thereto without compensation or attribution.

High Risk Activities. The Software is not specifically written, designed, manufactured, or intended for use in the planning, construction, maintenance, or direct operation of a nuclear facility, nor for use in online control or fail-safe operation of aircraft navigation, control or communication systems, weapon systems, or direct life support systems.

Transfer. You may not transfer the Software unless you obtain Keysight’s prior written authorization, deliver all copies of the Software to the transferee along with this EULA, and pay any applicable fees. For all transfers, the transferee must accept this EULA as a condition to any transfer and your license to use the Software will terminate upon transfer. Entitlement to receive technical support services for the Software may be transferred provided you obtain Keysight’s prior written authorization and pay any applicable fees. This section applies only to the extent permissible under applicable mandatory laws.

Term and Termination. This EULA shall continue for the Term unless terminated by Keysight as provided herein. Keysight may terminate this license upon notice for breach of this EULA. Upon expiration or termination, you must immediately destroy all copies of the Software.
Export Requirements. If you export, re-export, or import the Software, technology, or technical data licensed hereunder, you assume responsibility for complying with applicable laws and regulations and for obtaining required export and import authorizations. Keysight may terminate this license immediately if you are in violation of any applicable laws or regulations.

Unlicensed Use. You agree that Keysight may use security servers, security keys or modules, a hardware lock device, license administration software, a license authorization key to control access to the Software, or other security mechanisms to ensure compliance and you consent to such use. You may not take any steps to avoid or defeat the purpose of any such measures. If the Software is provided with a lock device or authorization key, use of the Software without the lock device or authorization key is prohibited. Keysight may take all legal steps to eliminate and prevent unlicensed use and piracy of the Software. In this context, the Software may include a security mechanism to detect installation or use of unlicensed copies of the Software and collect and transmit data about suspected unlicensed copies. Data collected does not include any customer data created with the Software. By using the Software, you consent to such detection and collection of data, as well as its transmission and use if suspected unlicensed copies are detected.

Encryption Notice. The Software may utilize encryption technology. You agree that encryption is not a guarantee of confidentiality and that Keysight is not liable for any breach of confidentiality that may occur as a result of decryption by a third party.

Audit. Upon reasonable notice, Keysight or its agents may, at Keysight’s expense, inspect your facilities (including computers, instruments, and machines) and records to verify your proper use and payment for the Software. You will keep records regarding your use in sufficient detail to permit this verification. If your payment is determined by usage of the Software, you also will provide Keysight with remote and on-site access to your network and on-site access to your records, as is reasonably necessary to conduct a proper audit. If, after an audit, it is determined that you have underpaid any amounts due, Keysight will invoice you for and you agree to pay the amount of the underpayment, plus interest, from the date payment was due. If the underpayment is more than five percent (5%) of the amount properly due, you also will pay Keysight’s audit expenses, and Keysight may, in its discretion, terminate your license. If you are a U.S. government customer, only Keysight employees authorized to access U.S. government facilities and computer systems may conduct such audit and any amount due under this Section 14 is subject to the U.S. Anti-Deficiency Act.

U.S. Government Rights. The Software is “commercial computer software,” as defined by Federal Acquisition Regulation (“FAR”) 2.101. Pursuant to FAR 12.212 and 27.405-3 and Department of Defense FAR Supplement (“DFARS”) 227.7202, the U.S. government acquires commercial computer software under the same terms by which the software is customarily provided to the public. Accordingly, Keysight provides the Software to U.S. government customers under its standard commercial license, which is embodied in this EULA. The license set forth in this EULA represents the exclusive authority by which the U.S. government may use, modify, distribute, or disclose the Software. This EULA and the license set forth herein, does not require or permit, among other things, that Keysight: (1) furnish technical information related to commercial computer software or commercial computer software documentation that is not customarily provided to the public; or (2) relinquish to, or otherwise provide, the U.S. government rights in excess of these rights customarily provided to the public to use, modify, reproduce, release, perform, display, or disclose commercial computer software or commercial computer software documentation. If you are a U.S. government customer, you acknowledge that you have reviewed the Software and this EULA and agree that the license provided for herein is consistent with federal law and otherwise satisfies U.S. government needs. If you are a U.S. government customer, you agree that this EULA reflects the entirety of the terms of Keysight’s customary commercial license applicable to U.S. government customers. No additional government requirements beyond those set forth in this EULA shall apply, except to the extent that those terms, rights, or licenses are explicitly required from all providers of commercial computer software pursuant to the FAR and the DFARS and are set forth specifically in writing elsewhere in this EULA. Keysight shall be under no obligation to update, revise, or otherwise modify the Software.

WARRANTY. TO THE EXTENT ALLOWED BY APPLICABLE MANDATORY LAW, AND EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT KEYSIGHT HAS PROVIDED A SPECIFIC WRITTEN WARRANTY APPLICABLE TO THE SOFTWARE, THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED TO YOU “AS IS” WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, WHETHER ORAL OR WRITTEN, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. KEYSIGHT, ON BEHALF OF ITSELF, ITS SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, AND SUPPLIERS, SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, NON-INFRINGEMENT, AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. SHOULD THE SOFTWARE PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE ENTIRE RISK AND COST RESULTING FROM OR RELATING TO THE DEFECT.
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. TO THE EXTENT ALLOWED BY APPLICABLE MANDATORY LAW, IN NO EVENT WILL KEYSIGHT, ITS SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, OR SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, OR OTHER DAMAGES (INCLUDING DOWNTIME COSTS, LOSS OF DATA, RESTORATION COSTS, OR LOST PROFITS) REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SUCH CLAIMS ARE BASED ON CONTRACT, TORT, WARRANTY, OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. YOUR USE OF THE SOFTWARE IS ENTIRELY AT YOUR OWN RISK. NOTWITHSTANDING THE FOREGOING, IF THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED TO YOU AT NO CHARGE, KEYSIGHT, ITS SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, AND SUPPLIERS WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR DIRECT DAMAGES.
Applicable Law; Jurisdiction and Venue. Disputes arising in connection with this EULA will be governed by, construed, and interpreted according to the laws of the United States and the State of California, without regard to conflict of laws principles. The United Nations Convention for Contracts for the International Sale of Goods will not apply to this EULA. You consent to personal jurisdiction and venue for all claims arising out of or related in any way to this EULA in a court of competent jurisdiction in San Francisco county in the Northern District of California, United States. You agree that the state and federal courts located in the Northern District of California have exclusive jurisdiction and venue over all claims arising out of or related in any way to this EULA and your use of the Software. If you are a U.S. government customer, disputes arising in connection with this EULA will be governed by, construed, and interpreted according to U.S. federal common law.
Data Privacy. Information about Keysight’s privacy practices is available in Keysight’s Customer Privacy Statement, available at www.keysight.com/go/privacy. <http://www.keysight.com/go/privacy>
Unenforceability. To the extent that any provision of this EULA is determined to be illegal or unenforceable, the remainder of this EULA will remain in full force and effect.
Entire Agreement. Certain program, data, and license files in the Software may be subject to supplemental license terms found in the documentation associated with the Software or directly in the files to which the supplemental terms apply. This EULA constitutes the entire agreement between you and Keysight with respect to the Software, and supersedes any previous communications, representations, or agreements, whether oral or written, except if you have a separate written, executed agreement with Keysight and the terms of such agreement conflict with the terms contained herein, in which case the terms of such agreement apply and take precedence. This EULA may not be changed except by an amendment signed by you and Keysight’s authorized representative.

[Zero999]

Yes, I've heard about auditing before, which I imagine adds a significant amount to the cost of ownership an presents a security risk. I wonder if anyone's challenged this legally?

I try to avoid software like this, whenever possible. I suppose they don't bother going after just one person, but larger organisations need to beware.

[mikeselectricstuff]

There's something similar on a sheet of paper in the DSOX1204 box, but seems to me pretty pointless, as
a) It's a scope, not a software product
b) Just putting the paper in the box doesn't mean the user has agreed to the terms, or even seen the paper at all.

[Zero999]

I wonder what defence contractors such as Lockheed Martin and Marshall's aerospace do?

Keysight: Can we audit your software and test equipment.

Defence contractor: No way. We can't allow a third party access to our restricted network, unless they're working on one of the projects and have signed the official secrets act.

Keysight: Then we'll revoke all your licences and take you to court.

Defence contractor: Good luck with that one!

[Mr. Scram]

I think Microsoft once almost pulled one of those.

[fsr]

Microsoft has put stuff like this in at least one of their contracts.
However, if you simply don't answer them, what are they going to do? Get an order from justice to search your business? Good look with that!
Are they going to consider your contract invalid? But you buy their stuff, so they only would lose money by doing that.
Why would you waste your time with an audit from them, anyways? You have other stuff to do. Time is just too valuable. To be working for them for free.

[Zero999]

Fortunately we don't have any Keysight equipment where I work and I don't own any. We do quite a bit of defence work and it isn't any of the contractors I mentioned in my previous post.

If I got a contract like that with anything I bought, I'd return it, together with a nasty letter, ranting about how bad it is, demanding a refund and telling them I'll never buy any of their products again.

[2N3055]

In EU that license agreement is simply a piece of paper with Keysight wishful thinking.
You didn't sign it or seen it before payment, and it is in violation of more than few EU regulations.

[Mr. Scram]

Microsoft has put stuff like this in at least one of their contracts.
However, if you simply don't answer them, what are they going to do? Get an order from justice to search your business? Good look with that!
Are they going to consider your contract invalid? But you buy their stuff, so they only would lose money by doing that.
Why would you waste your time with an audit from them, anyways? You have other stuff to do. Time is just too valuable. To be working for them for free.

They've been known to revoke licenses. Microsoft won't notice a thing, while your company is literally shut down. Guess who wins that one?

[filssavi]

There's something similar on a sheet of paper in the DSOX1204 box, but seems to me pretty pointless, as
a) It's a scope, not a software product
b) Just putting the paper in the box doesn't mean the user has agreed to the terms, or even seen the paper at all.

At least in Italy (but I think more or less in the whole of Europe) EULA are legally worth more or less like the paper they are printed on, even for software, as it is quite difficult to waive away your rights, it can be done but the client needs to be informed about it and sign the contract physically multiple times and even then there there are few things that can’t be signed away (like warranty)

Also the vexatious claims (as they are called) are automatically considered void no need to go to court

But to be safe I’m not a lawyer

[vtwin@cox.net]

Buddy of mine had Microsoft (might have been the BSA, I forget) contact them about an audit several years ago (small company w/ ~200 million annual sales). Microsoft demanded a bunch of documentation from them on their use of microsoft products and documentation of licenses.

They only buy Dell systems, so each computer was appropriately licensed. Where nobody thought to add additional licenses as the company grew over the years were the server CALs. They ended up needing to purchase a hundred or so CALs.

The whole microsoft CAL thing is confusing as hell. Per user, per device, concurrent, non-concurrent. Who the hell can keep track of it or what is actually required.

No CALs for samba or mysql, i always tell him.

Not sure why M$ targeted him, or, what they would have done had he told them to pound sand. I'm not aware of any code in M$ products to disable their usage remotely, so its not like they can remotely turn off your system and put you out of business (getting a legal injunction is a different story, and I'm not familiar enough w/ the case law in the US to know how a court would react to such a request.)

[2N3055]

They can only sue you, and then only if they have proof, which you don't have to give them. They are nothing to you.
Even if they could disable your systems remotely, that is a sabotage,  akin to act of terrorism. They have no right to retaliate.
Also that would mean they have remote tools in your network. Meaning malware, a trojan horse remote execution engine.
In EU that would be serious offence. Not to mention that would make them very popular with government, police, intelligence services.
Huawei scenario comes to mind...

[Mr. Scram]

They can only sue you, and then only if they have proof, which you don't have to give them. They are nothing to you.
Even if they could disable your systems remotely, that is a sabotage,  akin to act of terrorism. They have no right to retaliate.
Also that would mean they have remote tools in your network. Meaning malware, a trojan horse remote execution engine.
In EU that would be serious offence. Not to mention that would make them very popular with government, police, intelligence services.
Huawei scenario comes to mind...

What's with people getting these crazy ideas nowadays? Terrorism? It's ridiculous how eroded that term has become, considering we're now using it for license enforcement.

The worst they can do is probably to revoke your licenses. It will take a while for it to have any real effects, but not being able to deploy new systems or redeploy old ones would quickly become a pain. Anything tied to Azure can obviously be shut down instantly. Note that they are part of the BSA, so any and all other partners could also revoke their licenses. If those are packages which have more regular license checks with external servers, thinks could get painful rather quickly.

[MrMobodies]

So you agree for them to monitor and control your device remotely for 'unlicensed use'.

Encryption notice: If connected up they or their third party companies can spy on you and your usage through the equipment/software and can do what they like and won't take responsibility with whatever happens on their end.

Audit: They come onto your property and charge you for the visit if they think you underpaid or something is up with the way you use it according to the license.

Transfer. You may not transfer the Software unless you obtain Keysight’s prior written authorization, deliver all copies of the Software to the transferee along with this EULA, and pay any applicable fees. For all transfers, the transferee must accept this EULA as a condition to any transfer and your license to use the Software will terminate upon transfer. Entitlement to receive technical support services for the Software may be transferred provided you obtain Keysight’s prior written authorization and pay any applicable fees. This section applies only to the extent permissible under applicable mandatory laws.

Sounds like they want to own the functionality of the equipment.

[Mr. Scram]

So you agree for them to monitor and control your device remotely for 'unlicensed use'.

Encryption notice: If connected up they or their third party companies can spy on you and your usage through the equipment/software and can do what they like and won't take responsibility with whatever happens on their end.

Audit: They come onto your property and charge you for the visit if they think you underpaid or something is up with the way you use it according to the license.

Transfer. You may not transfer the Software unless you obtain Keysight’s prior written authorization, deliver all copies of the Software to the transferee along with this EULA, and pay any applicable fees. For all transfers, the transferee must accept this EULA as a condition to any transfer and your license to use the Software will terminate upon transfer. Entitlement to receive technical support services for the Software may be transferred provided you obtain Keysight’s prior written authorization and pay any applicable fees. This section applies only to the extent permissible under applicable mandatory laws.

Sounds like they want to own the functionality of the equipment.

It sounds like the same game almost all larger companies are trying to play nowadays. You buy and own nothing, but rent everything. Unfortunately, that's a much too tentative base to build your own company on. Giving dozen or so other companies the ability to pull the plug on vital parts of yours isn't good business practice.

[2N3055]

They can only sue you, and then only if they have proof, which you don't have to give them. They are nothing to you.
Even if they could disable your systems remotely, that is a sabotage,  akin to act of terrorism. They have no right to retaliate.
Also that would mean they have remote tools in your network. Meaning malware, a trojan horse remote execution engine.
In EU that would be serious offence. Not to mention that would make them very popular with government, police, intelligence services.
Huawei scenario comes to mind...

What's with people getting these crazy ideas nowadays? Terrorism? It's ridiculous how eroded that term has become, considering we're now using it for license enforcement.

The worst they can do is probably to revoke your licenses. It will take a while for it to have any real effects, but not being able to deploy new systems or redeploy old ones would quickly become a pain. Anything tied to Azure can obviously be shut down instantly. Note that they are part of the BSA, so any and all other partners could also revoke their licenses. If those are packages which have more regular license checks with external servers, thinks could get painful rather quickly.

I said "akin to terrorism".
There is no "license enforcement" by private commercial company.  Enforcement is a job of government "law enforcement" agencies. That is the law. If Microsoft or Keysight don't like what I do or they are in doubt that I might be in breach of contract they can go to court and sue me. They have no other LEGAL approach available.

They cannot even revoke my licenses one sided, without court order allowing them to do so because it was found in court that I was, in fact in breach of contract.
It's not Wild West. They don't get to enforce their own version of law by themselves.

If they disable my business, and cause me loses, they are guilty of act of commercial sabotage and liable for that. And if they are unlucky that I have government contract, they will be in fact in big problems.My government might actually declare it "act of terrorism by foreign agents", because of cross border activity. And act of espionage, because  of remote tools in my network.
It's not me who invents this.

To make it clear, I'm talking of them reaching in my network and disabling my scope.
If I use software as a service, they can disable their service on their side, in which they are not doing anything on my side.

Big problem is that USA law is very liberal what you can write in contract. Not so much in other countries, especially in EU.
I assure you that contracts in EU look very differently that those in USA. I've seen both versions for same equipment.
And if contract has stipulations that are in violation of consumer rights, human rights,etc etc. they are simply ignored (redacted) like they don't exist.

[Mr. Scram]

I said "akin to terrorism".
There is no "license enforcement" by private commercial company.  Enforcement is a job of government "law enforcement" agencies. That is the law. If Microsoft or Keysight don't like what I do or they are in doubt that I might be in breach of contract they can go to court and sue me. They have no other LEGAL approach available.

They cannot even revoke my licenses one sided, without court order allowing them to do so because it was found in court that I was, in fact in breach of contract.
It's not Wild West. They don't get to enforce their own version of law by themselves.

If they disable my business, and cause me loses, they are guilty of act of commercial sabotage and liable for that. And if they are unlucky that I have government contract, they will be in fact in big problems.My government might actually declare it "act of terrorism by foreign agents", because of cross border activity. And act of espionage, because  of remote tools in my network.
It's not me who invents this.

To make it clear, I'm talking of them reaching in my network and disabling my scope.
If I use software as a service, they can disable their service on their side, in which they are not doing anything on my side.

Big problem is that USA law is very liberal what you can write in contract. Not so much in other countries, especially in EU.
I assure you that contracts in EU look very differently that those in USA. I've seen both versions for same equipment.
And if contract has stipulations that are in violation of consumer rights, human rights,etc etc. they are simply ignored (redacted) like they don't exist.

"Akin to terrorism" is still comparing it to terrorism. That's preposterous. Terrorism has to do with violence, death and causing terror for ideological purposes. None of those elements are present. It's a company enforcing the agreement you made with them for profit. Using the term terrorism is a just cheap escalation to claim some sort of moral high ground. After all, who doesn't hate terrorists?

If your software calls home every week, they can obviously just stop providing that service until all the requirements of the agreement have been met. Yes, companies can enforce the agreement you have with them just fine. They don't have to go to court for that. This could mean certain parts of your business stop functioning as expected. It's like how the phone company can disconnect you if you stop paying your bills, or turn out to abuse the service in some way.

[2N3055]

"Akin to terrorism" is still comparing it to terrorism. That's preposterous. Terrorism has to do with violence, death and causing terror for ideological purposes. None of those elements are present. It's a company enforcing the agreement you made with them for profit. Using the term terrorism is a just cheap escalation to claim some sort of moral high ground. After all, who doesn't hate terrorists?

If your software calls home every week, they can obviously just stop providing that service until all the requirements of the agreement have been met. Yes, companies can enforce the agreement you have with them just fine. They don't have to go to court for that. This could mean certain parts of your business stop functioning as expected. It's like how the phone company can disconnect you if you stop paying your bills, or turn out to abuse the service in some way.

If they disrupt any service connected to government, law enforcement , health services, public, electric services by connecting to their network and disabling something they would do exactly terrorism..
It is not me inventing this, I'm telling you how it is seen by those mentioned. It is paranoid crap if you ask me but they would treat it like "foreign agent action". 

If somebody disables something in power grid in USA it is terrorism. If USA company does it in Croatia it's justified and no problem at all. Double standards much?

As I said, if you use something as a service, it's a different story. That would be different.

But if Keysight remotely disables my oscilloscope, inside my network, because they suspect something they would be in the world of trouble.
They can disable my updates on their sites, they can claim I voided warranty (good luck with that too), but they cannot come to my office and hit my scope with a hammer. Both in real and in virtual sense.

They can sue me, and police can come with a warrant, and collect equipment in question for forensic examination. If it is proven that I'm in violation, then, they (by their own license agreement) will have to give me back my money, take scope back, and then sue me for any damages they think I incurred upon them. In which  case a court will decide what my liabilities  towards them would be, and I would have to pay that and court expenses.

[Mr. Scram]

If they disrupt any service connected to government, law enforcement , health services, public, electric services by connecting to their network and disabling something they would do exactly terrorism..
It is not me inventing this, I'm telling you how it is seen by those mentioned. It is paranoid crap if you ask me but they would treat it like "foreign agent action". 

If somebody disables something in power grid in USA it is terrorism. If USA company does it in Croatia it's justified and no problem at all. Double standards much?

As I said, if you use something as a service, it's a different story. That would be different.

But if Keysight remotely disables my oscilloscope, inside my network, because they suspect something they would be in the world of trouble.
They can disable my updates on their sites, they can claim I voided warranty (good luck with that too), but they cannot come to my office and hit my scope with a hammer. Both in real and in virtual sense.

They can sue me, and police can come with a warrant, and collect equipment in question for forensic examination. If it is proven that I'm in violation, then, they (by their own license agreement) will have to give me back my money, take scope back, and then sue me for any damages they think I incurred upon them. In which  case a court will decide what my liabilities  towards them would be, and I would have to pay that and court expenses.

This has nothing to do with terrorism. Terrorism is causing death and destruction for ideological purposes. This is a company enforcing a commercial agreement for profit. They have nothing in common.

You seem to be misunderstanding the argument here. It's not about actively knocking out your software. It's about not providing the infrastructure it requires to operate any more. Windows will continue to work just fine without a license server once activated, but activating new installs or computers becomes impossible. In most organisations systems are continually being replaced or reinstalled, which means you start running out of activated systems quite quickly.  It seems Solidworks needs to regularly communicate with a server to stay activated. If Dassault pulls your access to that server, your software will cease operating after the activation period.

That being said, parties like the BSA seem to opt for litigation rather than revoking licenses. They're a rather deep pocketed alliance and their motive is to get you to pay, not to bankrupt you. Even though they easily could. It's worth mentioning that licenses do seem to get revoked, but that these are licenses shared publicly on the internet and not those of organisations refusing an audit.

[MrMobodies]

Here's a joke:

Key Sight.

They have license keys in their sight.

It's in the name and they're now going  by it.

They want every in sight to how their keys are being used.

[HighVoltage]

It seems Solidworks needs to regularly communicate with a server to stay activated. If Dassault pulls your access to that server, your software will cease operating after the activation period.

Indeed, Solidworks not only requires access to one of their servers for activation, it wants to communicate every time Solidworks is started and if it can not find the Solidworks server, it will start complaining in about a month or so until it will no longer start. Even worst, if you are in a different country to your original activation country, Solidworks will contact you and ask why you use a license outside of your activation country! Unreal! So, a good VPN service is my friend, when I travel with Solidwoks on my laptop.

Try to activate an older Adobe package that you have paid for.
Its ridicules, Adobe has turned off the old activation servers and requires the user to buy a newer product.

It really seems like all larger companies play this game these days.
I really don't like it that Keysight is going down this rabbit hole.

 

[Zero999]

I don't have a problem with paying for software, but it has become crazy. What's disappointing is how little the most expensive software is developed and improved and how much they charge for maintenance. The problem is vendor lock-in as the software company effectively owns all the data created with their program, as no other programs can fully read and manipulate it.

If you're an individual or small organisation, it's often better to pirate the software, rather than pay for it: no audits, no licences and no phoning home, just don't get caught!

I think very large organisations could probably save themselves money by employing developers to either develop their own software in house, or modifying an existing open source package to suit the business, rather than purchasing an off the shelf product. Once your software licencing, deployment and auditing costs reach 7 digits it starts to make more sense. Look at what Google do.

I just steer clear of all this nonsense by using free software, whenever possible.

[tooki]

<offtopic>

Terrorism? It's ridiculous how eroded that term has become, considering we're now using it for license enforcement.

I couldn’t agree more. Terrorism (as the word implies) originally meant forcing an issue by terrorizing: making people feel unsafe. (And in this, IMHO the terrorists won, since they successfully made people believe the world is FAR less safe than it actually is.) And while many horrific acts are committed by various actors, few of them are actually terrorism by this definition. Terrorism is intended to instill fear, and causing harm is merely the means to that end. But not every act of harm is intended to instill fear.

</offtopic>

[cdev]

People should take it more seriously than they do when a manufacturer uses the word "terrorism".

Don't pirate software, its a dumb mistake.

[Mr. Scram]

I don't have a problem with paying for software, but it has become crazy. What's disappointing is how little the most expensive software is developed and improved and how much they charge for maintenance. The problem is vendor lock-in as the software company effectively owns all the data created with their program, as no other programs can fully read and manipulate it.

If you're an individual or small organisation, it's often better to pirate the software, rather than pay for it: no audits, no licences and no phoning home, just don't get caught!

I think very large organisations could probably save themselves money by employing developers to either develop their own software in house, or modifying an existing open source package to suit the business, rather than purchasing an off the shelf product. Once your software licencing, deployment and auditing costs reach 7 digits it starts to make more sense. Look at what Google do.

I just steer clear of all this nonsense by using free software, whenever possible.

Agreed. Burdening the paying user with ever more invasive measures and models isn't productive. Poking holes through your firewall, running all kinds of deep burying software on your hardware and network and running the risk of measures kicking you out of your software causing risks to production all add up to a very unsatisfying experience. At some point running pirated software simply becomes less of an operational risk, which is a rather painful conclusion. I vehemently disagree with pirating software and especially software used to make money with, but I can see how people get fed up with it at some point. To add injury to insult, it's doubtful it's very effective.

Adobe would be a good example of this. They already made it a huge headache to license software without their cloud solution and now they eliminated that possibility completely. They don't seem to understand companies aren't very thrilled to pay substantial amounts of money for software which can't be managed with existing tools and standards and which updates and calls home essentially at will, causing all kinds of practical issues. All that for software which hasn't really changed or improved much the past decade or so. It's hard to blame people who decide pirating is more sensible, even if I don't agree with it. At this point it's not even about the money any more.