Author Topic: Killing yourself with solvents (Alcohols and Hydrocarbons I have loved)  (Read 5307 times)

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Offline CerebusTopic starter

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This is intended to pick up the off topic discussion from the moderation reports thread.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline CerebusTopic starter

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The stuff we call Methylated Spirits  or "Metho" in Oz is only allowed to contain 5% of Methanol , which is allegedly the stuff which is "toxic to the skin".
In the real world, though "Metho", in almost evey case in this country contains no  Methanol at all!

As to "skin toxicity", people have been using Metho as a cleaning fluid, & as an alternative to surgical alcohol for over a century, & reports of toxicity of that kind are nowhere to be found.

People assume that because a lot of something is dangerous, a very small amount is equally dangerous.

Hell, we use "Rat Poison" (Warfarin) to treat blood clotting, & Atropine, extracted from Deadly Nightshade for heart problems!

Thanks for the reply, it was interesting!

You could be right, especially in "Oz". But, it is (to me), a complicated subject area. I looked into it a bit further. It seems "Methanol", may not be the only chemical in it. So, maybe one of the others, causes the skin issues ?

Apparently, in the UK, there is also "Industrial Methylated Spirits", which seems to need special permission, from the authorities, before being allowed to purchase. It is a lot purer, and more suited to some more specialist uses.

https://www.chemicals.co.uk/blog/what-are-methylated-spirits

I think it is most likely that the mix in the UK is different.
We don't put dye in ours either!

That said, back in the day, stuff like carbon tetrachloride was commonly used for cleaning electronic equipment, but was banned (in Oz) back in the late 1950s.

Nearly as bad was Trichlorethylene,  which was used in "Servisol" for many years.
I remember getting a batch of Servisol where the carton had been damaged, with the stuff leaked all over.
Some leaks were from the body of the can, & some from the cap, so we put the good bodies & caps together & salvaged the stuff by decanting them from one to another.

Leaded petrol, "Mineral Turps", "Range fuel", diesel fuel, acetone, carurettor cleaner, etc are all things which were enthusiastically used for cleaning various items, & got on bare skin.

We washed our hands vigorously after messing with them, though----most of them stink!!

This is getting seriously off topic, but is interesting, & perhaps needs a thread of its own.

I was a great fan of Trichlorethylene and was rather miffed when it went the way of all flesh because of new regulations about chlorinated solvents. Nothing beat it as degreasing agent without being either very much more flammable or much more toxic.

The toxicity profile of Trichlorethylene was actually very good, the only real drawback was that it was quite possible to knock yourself out with it if you were stupid enough to use something so volatile in an unventilated space - it's chemically very closely related to Halothane (2-Bromo-2-chloro-1,1,1-trifluoroethane) which is an inhalational anaesthetic.

Carbon Tet. was all over the place back in the day. Used to be used by dry cleaners until somebody finally got the memo that it was rather more than just a suspected carcinogen. Replaced in dry cleaning with Trichlorethylene. I always associate the smell of Trichlorethylene and with libraries, there was a dry cleaners smack next to the main library where I grew up and there was always a lingering smell of it in the area.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Cubdriver

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We used to go through trichlor by the gallon degreasing evaporater and sputterer shielding at National Semi.  It would sit in a potassium hydroxide bath until the aluminum deposits had been dissolved, then multiple DI water rinses (may have been a dip in mild acid along the way, too, I can't quite recall as it was 30+ years ago and I typically only helped out with the degreasing part and not the initial clean) followed by a very liberal trichlor-acetone-methanol degrease, spraying it on with a modified blowgun set up as an atomizer.  The evaporation of the solvents made it a bone-chilling task and you'd wind up with very numb fingers after a short time.  Wish I'd had the foresight to pilfer a gallon or 5 of the trichlor!

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

Offline MK14

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 :popcorn:

I've been PM'ing, anyone, who continues to reply, to any of my past posts in the moderation thread. To avoid polluting/disrupting it any further.

Talking of polluting, there use to be Evo-stick Glue in the UK (google says there still is!).
The stuff from many decades ago, would stink like crazy, from its solvent(s). Some kind of fast evaporating solvent, which I'm not sure off-hand, what it was. I bet/suspect, it doesn't use that solvent, any more.
 

Offline drussell

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I was a great fan of Trichlorethylene and was rather miffed when it went the way of all flesh because of new regulations about chlorinated solvents. Nothing beat it as degreasing agent without being either very much more flammable or much more toxic.

Hmm...  Wierd.

It is still readily available here in Canada (well, Alberta, at least) as automotive brake cleaner.  It is my favorite version of brake cleaner, especially since it very useful for so many purposes.

This can in my hand is CRC Brakleen brand, in a red and white can...   This partial-remnant-can that happens to be sitting on top of my fridge for quick "household" uses without having to run out to the garage happens to say it is made in the USA, but it is obviously an export-to-Canada version of the can since it has only English and French on it and says (C) 2017 CRC Canada.

Edit: Manufacturer number is 75089, it's about $6 per can at AutoValue here for the regular-size 539g cans.

It would probably get randomly stopped in customs if I tried to send you some, though, knowing my luck.  :)
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 02:10:30 am by drussell »
 

Offline CerebusTopic starter

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Not a fan of those big gun solvents, but has anyone considered limonene as a universal solvent? It seems to dissolve most unwanted organic matters commonly seen in the electronic industry, and it is safe enough to be used as a fragrance, food additive and even dietary supplement.

The problem with most commercially available Limonene is that is isn't very pure (it really is distilled orange oil). So you need a second washing operation to remove the limonene. I keep a spray bottle of limonene in the kitchen for label removal and for cleaning fat spatters off the kitchen cupboards near the cooker. The nozzle of this cakes in a soft sticky waxy residue that needs regular cleaning itself. Also limonene is very slow to evaporate; which can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on what you're using it for.

If I'm using it on anything I can't tolerate possible residue on I follow up with either a water and detergent wash, or an isopropanol rinse possibly followed by DI water.

I can also relate that, although safe on many plastics,  it is a very effective solvent of ABS. I found this out the hard way - let's just say it involves me coming back to find a bit of ABS that used to be 'something' was now more of an amorphous blob.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline MK14

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I keep a spray bottle of limonene

If you don't mind me asking, where do you get your supply of Limonene from ?
I recently tried ebay, but it seems fairly expensive, for a bottle with not much in it.
D-Limonene Citrus/Orange Turpene 250ml 100%, for £8.99, seller jamalmiah.
 

Offline Cubdriver

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I was a great fan of Trichlorethylene and was rather miffed when it went the way of all flesh because of new regulations about chlorinated solvents. Nothing beat it as degreasing agent without being either very much more flammable or much more toxic.

Hmm...  Wierd.

It is still readily available here in Canada (well, Alberta, at least) as automotive brake cleaner.  It is my favorite version of brake cleaner, especially since it very useful for so many purposes.

This can in my hand is CRC Brakleen brand, in a red and white can...   This partial-remnant-can that happens to be sitting on top of my fridge for quick "household" uses without having to run out to the garage happens to say it is made in the USA, but it is obviously an export-to-Canada version of the can since it has only English and French on it and says (C) 2017 CRC Canada.

Edit: Manufacturer number is 75089, it's about $6 per can at AutoValue here for the regular-size 539g cans.

It would probably get randomly stopped in customs if I tried to send you some, though, knowing my luck.  :)

I love Brakleen - it doubles as an excellent wasp and yellowjacket killer, too.  Way cheaper than the 'official' wasp sprays, and useful for cleaning brakes and other things, so there's usually a can kicking around in the garage.   :-+
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

Offline themadhippy

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Quote
I love Brakleen - it doubles as an excellent wasp and yellowjacket killer, too
Also used  as  the propellant in dodgy chinese flame jet fx units.

 

Online David Hess

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I was a great fan of Trichlorethylene and was rather miffed when it went the way of all flesh because of new regulations about chlorinated solvents. Nothing beat it as degreasing agent without being either very much more flammable or much more toxic.

It is not flammable but still should not be used around flame because the products when burnt are toxic.
 

Offline helius

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I was a great fan of Trichlorethylene and was rather miffed when it went the way of all flesh because of new regulations about chlorinated solvents. Nothing beat it as degreasing agent without being either very much more flammable or much more toxic.
Trichloroethylene is still available: I have a can of it in my paint drawer (Sprayon EL848). It was manufactured just three years ago. What got banned by the Montreal Protocol was 1,1,1-trichloroethane, because it is an ozone depleter. 1,1,1-trichloroethane was not regulated for health reasons.

Quote
The toxicity profile of Trichlorethylene was actually very good, the only real drawback was that it was quite possible to knock yourself out with it if you were stupid enough to use something so volatile in an unventilated space - it's chemically very closely related to Halothane (2-Bromo-2-chloro-1,1,1-trifluoroethane) which is an inhalational anaesthetic.
Now I'm quite certain you have mixed up trichloroethylene with 1,1,1-trichloroethane. Trichloroethylene or "TCE" is a particularly toxic solvent whose dangers became evident in the 1960s when it began to be found in groundwater around IBM's disk drive factories in Santa Clara, CA. It was largely replaced for aerosol uses by 1,1,1-trichloroethane ("Tric"), which was much less toxic. However, 1,1,1-trichloroethane is an ozone depleter and was banned in the late 1990s under the Montreal Protocol that regulated CFCs.

Quote
Carbon Tet. was all over the place back in the day. Used to be used by dry cleaners until somebody finally got the memo that it was rather more than just a suspected carcinogen. Replaced in dry cleaning with Trichlorethylene. I always associate the smell of Trichlorethylene and with libraries, there was a dry cleaners smack next to the main library where I grew up and there was always a lingering smell of it in the area.
Dry cleaning solvent is almost entirely perchloroethylene (tetrachloroethylene). It is also widely available (maybe not in Los Angeles) as aerosol brake cleaner. My understanding is that perchloroethylene is much less toxic compared to trichloroethylene or trans-1,2-dichloroethylene.

These days cleaners are increasingly switching to "organic" (sheesh) clothes cleaning methods including D5 cyclomethicone, or "wet cleaning" using new equipment.

I saw some 60% carbon tetrachloride in an old fire extinguisher. Looked like it was still full. Great stuff I'm sure.

As far as methylated spirits/denatured alcohol goes;
I believe the ratio of ethanol:methanol is 10:1 or more, which makes it less dangerous to contact the skin. The reason for this is that ethanol and methanol compete for the same enzyme, alcohol dehydrogenase. Ethanol gets metabolized by this enzyme to acetaldehyde (the cause of hangovers), whle methanol gets metabolized to formaldehyde (a neurotoxin and cell destroyer). If the active site of the enzyme always bumps into an ethanol molecule, it can't metabolize methanol, which is why the treatment for methanol poisoning is high doses of ethanol.
It is still not a good idea to intentionally put it on the skin.

Quote from: MK14
If you don't mind me asking, where do you get your supply of Limonene from ?
The products I am familiar with are Citra-Solv and De-Solv-It. Note that many cleaners such as Simple Green also contain glycol ethers in addition to limonene.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 06:11:42 pm by helius »
 
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Offline CerebusTopic starter

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I keep a spray bottle of limonene

If you don't mind me asking, where do you get your supply of Limonene from ?
I recently tried ebay, but it seems fairly expensive, for a bottle with not much in it.
D-Limonene Citrus/Orange Turpene 250ml 100%, for £8.99, seller jamalmiah.

Off of eBay UK (I'll look for the vendor in a minute, but it's long enough ago that it's probably fallen off my purchase history). I got a litre for a sensible price - which with me being a cheapskate probably equates to 'cheap' to most people. I don't have the original HDPE bottle that it was supplied in (decanted it into a proper reagent bottle) so I can't find the vendor's name that way. My usual eBay vendor for solvents and the like is apcpure (http://www.ebaystores.co.uk/apcpure) so it was probably them, but they don't have any at the moment.

Hold on .... Nope,  - I was right, too long ago. On searching it does seem prices are crazy high at the moment. You might need to wait for the world to return to something like normality before prices go back to normal.

Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline drussell

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Now I'm quite certain you have mixed up trichloroethylene with 1,1,1-trichloroethane.
...
Dry cleaning solvent is almost entirely perchloroethylene (tetrachloroethylene). It is also widely available (maybe not in Los Angeles) as aerosol brake cleaner. My understanding is that perchloroethylene is much less toxic compared to trichloroethylene or trans-1,2-dichloroethylene.

Oh, wait...  I misread this all initially also and am incorrect.

The 75089 Brakleen I have here is perchloroethylene / tetrachloroethylene.

Yes, the same as the dry cleaning solvent.  It is handy for that kind of oily stain removal....
 

Offline drussell

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I saw some 60% carbon tetrachloride in an old fire extinguisher. Looked like it was still full. Great stuff I'm sure.

Here's a video of an Aussie bloke making a bit of a mess trying to get some out...  :)



 

Offline CerebusTopic starter

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Now I'm quite certain you have mixed up trichloroethylene with 1,1,1-trichloroethane.

What I was confusing was my spelling (which always happens with me with alkanes, alkenes, et. al.). You are right, I did mean trichloroethane. In my defence, I was just copying the existing misspelling perpetrated by another because the Servisol referred to before was most definitely 1,1,1-trichloroethane. I was thinking about the right thing but writing about the wrong one. As I say, not the first time I've done that with the whole alkane/alkene/alkyne thing.

Quote
Quote
Carbon Tet. was all over the place back in the day. Used to be used by dry cleaners until somebody finally got the memo that it was rather more than just a suspected carcinogen. Replaced in dry cleaning with Trichlorethylene. I always associate the smell of Trichlorethylene and with libraries, there was a dry cleaners smack next to the main library where I grew up and there was always a lingering smell of it in the area.
Dry cleaning solvent is almost entirely perchloroethylene (tetrachloroethylene).

I was thinking back to the 60s when Carbon Tet. was replaced with thichlorethane in the UK (under the tradename Trilene (my spelling of that may be off)) and was then subsequently replaced with perchorethylene.

Quote
I saw some 60% carbon tetrachloride in an old fire extinguisher. Looked like it was still full. Great stuff I'm sure.

We had one of those - a brass 'syringe' affair that my Father dug up from somewhere. He was rapidly dissuaded from putting it on the wall in the kitchen by both my mother (a chemist) and me.

Quote
As far as methylated spirits/denatured alcohol goes;
I believe the ratio of ethanol:methanol is 10:1 or more, which makes it less dangerous to contact the skin. The reason for this is that ethanol and methanol compete for the same enzyme, alcohol dehydogenase. Ethanol gets metabolized by this enzyme to acetaldehyde (the cause of hangovers), whle methanol gets metabolized to formaldehyde (a neurotoxin and cell destroyer). If the active site of the enzyme always bumps into an ethanol molecule, it can't metabolize methanol, which is why the treatment for methanol poisoning is high doses of ethanol.
It is still not a good idea to intentionally put it on the skin.

Really it's not much of an issue putting any of these on your skin as long as you don't bathe in them. The whole point of all these skin sanitisers using alcohols of one sort or another is that the alcohol used is toxic, if it wasn't it wouldn't kill off the things it's supposed to kill off.

LD50 (skin) for Methanol is 15.8g/kg (rabbit), Isopropanol > 10g/kg (rabbit) and Ethanol 15.8g/kg (rabbit); so methanol is no worse a toxin for skin contact than good old ethanol. This shouldn't be a surprise because the mechanism of transfer across the skin to where it can exercise any toxicity is going to be similar, if not probably identical, for all three alcohols. The skin is evolved to be a barrier and does a very good job of that, you have to get through quite a layer of no longer living material before you can get to the living stuff to do it any harm.

On a side note, ADH actually preferentially binds to ethanol over methanol.

The formulae used around the world for denatured alcohol vary quite a lot. Only some contain methanol, many contain other denaturants either alone or in combination with methanol. I'd have more concern about some of the other denaturants used in terms of through-skin toxicity than I would have about methanol per se. A common addition is methyl ethyl ketone, which has an LD50 (skin) of 5g/kg (rabbit) and because of its affinity for and high solubility in lipids it can do a much better job of crossing the skin's barrier.

The official formulation for "completely denatured alcohol" in the UK is

Per hectolitre of absolute ethanol:

    1 litre of isopropyl alcohol
    1 litre of methyl ethyl ketone
    1 gram of denatonium benzoate

(There are other formulae in common use in the EU at that URL)

So "methylated spirits" may actually not contain any methanol nowadays.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline MK14

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I keep a spray bottle of limonene

If you don't mind me asking, where do you get your supply of Limonene from ?
I recently tried ebay, but it seems fairly expensive, for a bottle with not much in it.
D-Limonene Citrus/Orange Turpene 250ml 100%, for £8.99, seller jamalmiah.

Off of eBay UK (I'll look for the vendor in a minute, but it's long enough ago that it's probably fallen off my purchase history). I got a litre for a sensible price - which with me being a cheapskate probably equates to 'cheap' to most people. I don't have the original HDPE bottle that it was supplied in (decanted it into a proper reagent bottle) so I can't find the vendor's name that way. My usual eBay vendor for solvents and the like is apcpure (http://www.ebaystores.co.uk/apcpure) so it was probably them, but they don't have any at the moment.

Hold on .... Nope,  - I was right, too long ago. On searching it does seem prices are crazy high at the moment. You might need to wait for the world to return to something like normality before prices go back to normal.

Thanks for the helpful answer. I will wait until after the current situation improves/resolves (unless urgent needs, arise).
They (apcpure), also seem to sell electronics use chemicals, such as IPA and PCB etchants.

Knowing the approximate price point also helps, which you have done. Because some things are genuinely very expensive, such as insulin. It will probably take a very long time for the price of IPA, to get back to pre-epidemic prices.
 

Offline KaneTW

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IPA is actually around the same price here. Technical quality, 22EUR for 6 1 liter bottles a year ago and 27EUR now.

Personally I find that ultrasonic detergents are sufficient to clean off most things. IPA is mostly when I need to wipe something down without getting it wet.
 

Offline MK14

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So "methylated spirits" may actually not contain any methanol nowadays.

This article:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=1241216

Seems to explain (I've also added my own words/explanation/details, so best to read original article, if that bothers you), that purposely adding poison(s) to methylated spirits, is nasty/criminal-like, because in many cases of poisoning by it. It was children, who accidentally found (e.g. a bottle of it, in a low cupboard, then defeated the mandatory child proof lid) and injested it.

With serious risk of death and/or blindness. ('and' because blindness can be earlier symptom, before death).
Therefore, it has been banned (I think), by a number of countries. The UK NOT being mentioned in those countries.
It seems to say, the US, Australia (already ban it) with New Zealand (at the time of the article), seriously considering, outlawing it (limit something like 0.1% Methanol).
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 10:50:09 pm by MK14 »
 

Offline SilverSolder

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I was a great fan of Trichlorethylene and was rather miffed when it went the way of all flesh because of new regulations about chlorinated solvents. Nothing beat it as degreasing agent without being either very much more flammable or much more toxic.

Hmm...  Wierd.

It is still readily available here in Canada (well, Alberta, at least) as automotive brake cleaner.  It is my favorite version of brake cleaner, especially since it very useful for so many purposes.

This can in my hand is CRC Brakleen brand, in a red and white can...   This partial-remnant-can that happens to be sitting on top of my fridge for quick "household" uses without having to run out to the garage happens to say it is made in the USA, but it is obviously an export-to-Canada version of the can since it has only English and French on it and says (C) 2017 CRC Canada.

Edit: Manufacturer number is 75089, it's about $6 per can at AutoValue here for the regular-size 539g cans.

It would probably get randomly stopped in customs if I tried to send you some, though, knowing my luck.  :)

Are you sure it is real trike?  - and not some kind of substitute...     The US brake cleaners are definitely not trike.
 

Offline drussell

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Are you sure it is real trike?  - and not some kind of substitute...     The US brake cleaners are definitely not trike.

No, I had misread that post....

See post #15 above...
 
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Offline CerebusTopic starter

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So "methylated spirits" may actually not contain any methanol nowadays.

This article:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=1241216

Seems to explain (I've also added my own words/explanation/details, so best to read original article, if that bothers you), that purposely adding poison(s) to methylated spirits, is nasty/criminal-like, because in many cases of poisoning by it. It was children, who accidentally found (e.g. a bottle of it, in a low cupboard, then defeated the mandatory child proof lid) and injested it.

With serious risk of death and/or blindness. ('and' because blindness can be earlier symptom, before death).
Therefore, it has been banned (I think), by a number of countries. The UK NOT being mentioned in those countries.
It seems to say, the US, Australia (already ban it) with New Zealand (at the time of the article), seriously considering, outlawing it (limit something like 0.1% Methanol).

Yeah, "meths" was made undrinkable so that it would provide a source of 'pure enough' ethanol for things that need ethanol (some lamps, some varnishes and so on) without attracting the massive taxes applied to drinkable alcohol. Many industrial uses of ethanol become prohibitively expensive if you have to pay booze taxes on the alcohol you use. So we then get a regulatory framework that mandates the deliberate addition of poisons to denatured alcohol if you want to use it for legitimate processes, all because of the calvinist/presbyterian/puritan idea that 'fun is bad' therefore we must have punitive taxation on alcohol. Nowadays it is wrapped up as a 'health' intervention, but most people would drink no more booze if the tax vanished overnight. So we have the stupid situation where the government sets out to deliberately poison people who try to have fun without paying tax on it - it sounds like something out of dystopian fiction when you boil it down like that.

Realistically, just adding the bittering agent that is already added would be enough to make meths something only the truly desperate would drink and would do it without deliberately adding something that we know will kill or seriously damage the people desperate enough to treat meths as an intoxicant or consuming it accidentally.

The newer formulations seem better in this respect. Isopropanol is a permitted food additive and is little more toxic than ethanol. MEK is more toxic (i.e. it has a lower LD50 concentration), but there are biochemical pathways that will safely detoxify it as long as you don't get too high a dose (About 20-40% of ingested MEK is excreted simply by breathing it out, 5% gets excreted unchanged in the urine and the rest gets either oxidised or reduced by various variants of CYP450 in the liver and gets excreted in that form complexed as glucuronides or sulphates. The point you're usually in trouble is where your body runs out of supplies of glucuronic acid, a factor in poisoning with many substances that you can happily detoxify at low doses e.g. ethanol and paracetamol.). Methanol is the real killer as the detoxification pathway itself produces another highly toxic chemical, formaldehyde.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online coppercone2

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how about simple green?

and IMO solvent flammability for hobbyists is overrated, use it outside. you need to be alert and cautious for like 5 minutes rather then thinking about DNA damage and shit later

but yes, i like carbon tet and ethylene, when I need something special, but I won't use it for something standard

btw: degrease tip, especially for gluing. Since you typically sand afterwards, before you sand be sure to use a scowering pad, it does WONDERS and improves the utility of standard solvents greatly. Don't be too lazy. And you can always degrease in stages, to minimize use of toxic solvents.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 02:59:33 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline CerebusTopic starter

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and IMO solvent flammability for hobbyists is overrated, use it outside.

It's not the using it that's the point of concern, it's the storing. Most people capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time know how not to set themselves on fire when they've got an open bottle of solvent nearby, but how many of us keep our assorted selection of solvents in a proper fire proof solvents cupboard like you'd be required to at work? It's actually seriously on my list of things that I really ought to acquire. I've got enough flammable, low flash point liquids in this house that they could be a real cause of concern if I was unfortunate/stupid enough to have a fire start in the house. It's the kind of thing that turns a small, learning-experience type fire into a "well, I didn't really like that house anyway" kind of fire.

I've been in a small, easily extinguished household fire. Things went from "I know how to put this out" to "I can't see, I can't breathe, I'm just going to shut the door on it and go outside and call the fire brigade" in less time than it took me to type this sentence. Not something I want to repeat or would wish on others; well, most others anyway.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline MK14

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It is amazing, all the biochemical processes, that go on in the human body. Hopefully these days, when they next invent the new "Methylated Spirits", (just like you described), it WON'T contain any real toxins/poisons. Just stuff to put people off from drinking it.
Apparently, lots of people in the US (probably other countries as well), buy Alcoholic mouthwash (and/or vanilla extract , as it is dissolved in ethanol), as a way to get drunk, with little money available to buy it. Or are too young to buy the real thing legally, yet.

Example links:
https://www.addictioncampuses.com/alcohol/drunk-from-mouthwash/
https://kidsactivitiesblog.com/119727/drunk-off-vanilla-extract/

all because of the calvinist/presbyterian/puritan idea that 'fun is bad' therefore we must have punitive taxation on alcohol.

Sometimes taxes, end up costing the consumer, many times as much as the tax was suppose to be.

E.g. A £15.01 (£0.01 over the £15 limit) parcel from China, could be charged an extra 0.2 pence VAT (UK purchase tax), in theory.
In practice, they decided to charge the VAT (and import duties, in some cases) on the total (without subtracting the £15 "tax free" bit), so you need to pay an extra £3.01
But, the post office, ADDS on another £8.00 handling charge.
So the 0.2 pence (£0.002) (Since we are allowed items for "free", up to a maximum of £15), is actually charged at around £3.01 (for the £0.002 bit) plus £8.00 (Post office + usually more if alternative delivery service) = £11.01
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 10:25:12 am by MK14 »
 
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Offline duak

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I started my career in the 70s at a company that used trichloro-something-or-other to clean PCBs.  They had stainless trays for manual cleaning under a fume hood for safety but didn't give any training nor did they post any instructions, other than a reminder to put the lids back on the trays.  If you didn't, 5 liters would evaporate before you knew it.  It would dissolve polystyrene caps and take some part labeling off if you weren't careful.

In the mid 80s I moved to a small company and with a real can-do attitude got a 5 gal drum of the same stuff to clean the few boards we built.  After about 5 years, that drum became a problem to the company so I just took it home and put it in the garage.  Great for cleaning car and bike parts and getting grease off clothes.  One day I went out to get a splash of it to clean up a spot and found that it had all evaporated through a small crack in the flexible pull-out spout.  The garage was not air tight and I never smelt it and I have two normal (??) kids so I think I'm OK...  I also grew up in the age of leaded gasoline and surrounded by tobacco usage so it would be hard to say what caused what anyway.
 
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