EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Halcyon on November 27, 2016, 11:43:25 pm
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<rant>
So I ordered a couple of things from Kogan (https://www.kogan.com/au/) and (reluctantly) supplied my e-mail address for invoicing/order status notification. There is no way to opt-out of marketing material until after you complete your order and then "unsubscribe" from their marketing crap. I even signed up using Gmail "alias" address (e.g.: myaddress+kogan@gmail.com).
After the first e-mail, I clicked the "unsubscribe" link, but since then I have received 6 more marketing e-mails over the last 4 days. I have also noticed they've stripped out the +kogan in the e-mail address and are sending it to the "real" address.
Why does Kogan think that this is OK? Firstly spamming me with shit after I've "unsubscribed" a number of times and sending me e-mail to an address I didn't specify?
This was the first time I've ordered from Kogan and will be my last.
</rant>
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I tend to use a dedicated gmail email for things like that, they are free to spam all they want. :)
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They probably wouldn't strip out the "+kogan" part. It would have been a better test if you didn't also have an email address that lacked the +kogan part. It sounds as if they properly unsubscribed you from myaddress+kogan@gmail.com.
It seems they did. All my order information and invoice was sent to the +kogan address but all their marketing crap is sent to the "root" address (without the +kogan).
Were you a Dick Smith Electronics customer and did DSE have your email address? The DSE list of email addresses was part of what Kogan bought from the receivers.
I asked for my email address to be removed from the list prior to the sale to Kogan. I have not received email from Kogan.
No, not at all. DSE don't have any of my details.
Is it not possible to request no emails from Kogan even if you are a customer? Businesses don't typically seek to annoy their loyal customers because it is far cheaper to keep a happy customer than it is to find new ones.
Nope. In order to complete the order, you must provide an e-mail address and you need to click "Continue" but not after automatically agreeing to receive marketing material. There is no check box that allows you to not sign up in the first place (see screen shot below).
It seems they make it too easy to sign up for their crap but almost impossible to unsubscribe.
In addition, I have tried to call them on the number on their 'Spam Act Policy' page (https://www.kogan.com/au/spam-act-policy/) however their IVR doesn't give you the option of "other"/speaking to anyone nor does it mention anything about privacy. After picking a random option (which had nothing to do with my query), I gave up after being on hold for a while.
I have since e-mailed them at unsubscribe@kogan.com.au so we'll see if we get a response.
I never wanted to sign up in the first place but they give you no other option.
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I haven't tried the unsubscribe - but I'm getting close. If it wasn't for the fact that this is going to a secondary email account, I'd have 'lost it' well before now.
The number of emails is becoming rather irritating ... I'm typically getting 3 a day and sometimes up to 5. In addition to these, there's "Kogan Travel" which seems to be averaging about 1 email every 2 days. Then there's "Kogan Mobile" and "Kogan Pantry".
In the last month, I've had a total of 103 marketing emails from Kogan.
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In the mean time, I've also flicked a complaint through to ACMA who handle complaints about Spam. I think someone needs to get up Kogan and get them to implement some changes. At least have a damn check-box that I can un-tick to opt-out of marketing e-mails at the point of checkout. It's not good enough for them to simply say You agree to our terms, oh, and we're going to endlessly send you shit you don't want, but only after you "agree".
No I don't bloody agree. I should be able to buy something without being hassled.
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This type of garbage annoys the hell out of me and I've just recently gone to extensive effort to thin out flogging emails and other promotional material and even our letter box has a sign which is completely ignored as the shifty pricks hide all the coloured crap inside the local newspaper which I don't read anyway, they are nothing more than wheelie bin fillers in my view, and then not long ago I signed up with ANZ Etrade in preparation to part with a few shares, holy smoke and mirrors the amount of associated crap they offer up is just ridiculous, credit cards, financial services, investment opportunities, discounts on balaclavas, FFS give me a break, I ticked the FO box once already.
It puts a whole new spin on buyer beware. :-- :palm:
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I ticked the FO box once already.
Hmmm..... I suspect there isn't a lot of interpretation required on the type of box you ticked. ;)
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perhaps its time to see if ruslan@kogan.com gets any traction.
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perhaps its time to see if ruslan@kogan.com gets any traction.
2 more e-mails this afternoon, that's 4 just today. Maybe I should subscribe Ruslan to his own e-mails.
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I tend to not bother with 'unsubscribe' links because the cynical side of me says this just gets you put on a different list - a more valuable one because this time they know they have a 'live' email address that is valid, because you responded to something. Sure, the original emails stop coming in, but now you get 4 more every hour from a 'partner' company.
It is wrong though, to have the "agree to terms of sale" and "subscribe to our junk" all in one check box. There should be two. One to agree to the terms of sale (perfectly legit) and one to opt out of any marketing crap.
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I tend to not bother with 'unsubscribe' links because the cynical side of me says this just gets you put on a different list - a more valuable one because this time they know they have a 'live' email address that is valid, because you responded to something. Sure, the original emails stop coming in, but now you get 4 more every hour from a 'partner' company.
Thankfully these kinds of tactics are against the law in Australia with the introduction of the Spam Act 2003. Among the rules, all commercial messages must contain a functional unsubscribe facility.
Yes, it's true, that some 'genuine' spam e-mails designed for phishing and malicious purposes might use this technique to identify active addresses, but you can generally spot these from regular commercial content from legitimate businesses.
It is wrong though, to have the "agree to terms of sale" and "subscribe to our junk" all in one check box. There should be two. One to agree to the terms of sale (perfectly legit) and one to opt out of any marketing crap.
100% agree. I guess this is what has annoyed me the most. The consumer really doesn't get a choice until it's too late. They should also not be modifying addresses (like removing the +kogan) in order to circumvent any filtering that I might choose to do.
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It is wrong though, to have the "agree to terms of sale" and "subscribe to our junk" all in one check box. There should be two. One to agree to the terms of sale (perfectly legit) and one to opt out of any marketing crap.
100% agree. I guess this is what has annoyed me the most. The consumer really doesn't get a choice until it's too late. They should also not be modifying addresses (like removing the +kogan) in order to circumvent any filtering that I might choose to do.
Well then, since Kogan is an Australian business, according to the Australian Communications and Media Authorities (ACMA) web site, where they outline key points of the Spam Act, Kogan seem to be in breach of it
http://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Marketers/Anti-Spam/Ensuring-you-dont-spam/key-elements-of-the-spam-act-ensuring-you-dont-spam-i-acma (http://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Marketers/Anti-Spam/Ensuring-you-dont-spam/key-elements-of-the-spam-act-ensuring-you-dont-spam-i-acma)
Scroll to the bottom and click "consent"
Can I use pre-ticked boxes to obtain consent to send messages?
No. Pre-checked tick boxes—for example, on a website where people can join a mailing list—are not an acceptable way of gaining consent
The all inclusive "agree" button you spoke of, certainly seem to fall under that description
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It is wrong though, to have the "agree to terms of sale" and "subscribe to our junk" all in one check box. There should be two. One to agree to the terms of sale (perfectly legit) and one to opt out of any marketing crap.
100% agree. I guess this is what has annoyed me the most. The consumer really doesn't get a choice until it's too late. They should also not be modifying addresses (like removing the +kogan) in order to circumvent any filtering that I might choose to do.
Well then, since Kogan is an Australian business, according to the Australian Communications and Media Authorities (ACMA) web site, where they outline key points of the Spam Act, Kogan seem to be in breach of it
http://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Marketers/Anti-Spam/Ensuring-you-dont-spam/key-elements-of-the-spam-act-ensuring-you-dont-spam-i-acma (http://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Marketers/Anti-Spam/Ensuring-you-dont-spam/key-elements-of-the-spam-act-ensuring-you-dont-spam-i-acma)
Scroll to the bottom and click "consent"
Can I use pre-ticked boxes to obtain consent to send messages?
No. Pre-checked tick boxes—for example, on a website where people can join a mailing list—are not an acceptable way of gaining consent
The all inclusive "agree" button you spoke of, certainly seem to fall under that description
Perhaps they are trying to be clever... The box is not 'pre-clicked'. You have to click on it.
If that's what they are thinking, that's just a smart-arse tactic that's going to get them in trouble.
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Yeah - seems to be against the spirit of the law but not quite the letter - since you DO have to click it to check it.
US law is absolutely worthless, passed simply to get a 'cute' acronym out of it - CAN-SPAM (seriously - that is the acronym! Controlling the Assault of Non-Solicited Pornography And Marketing
Only the government can come up with this crap, seriously. More effort went into the name than it did into the actual content or what it did. In fact it had the effect of actually ALLOWING more spam, depending on what state you lived in.
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(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/65484445.jpg)
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I don't like spam!
<cue the vikings>
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Ruslan Kogan should be deported back to Russia in my opinion. I was ripped off twice by Kogan so the spam is no surprise. My suggestion is in future, buy from a reputable dealer.