Author Topic: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention  (Read 22711 times)

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Offline KF5OBSTopic starter

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Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« on: May 15, 2014, 05:23:56 pm »
No matter how big or small your lab is, you probably have lots of precious gear sitting around. And no matter how large your wallet is or how inexpensive your gear is, you'd probably be upset if a fire burns it down or some bad person takes it from you. I'm curious how insurance covers this sort of hobby equipment in the various countries. In the US it seems that most insurances don't want to work with me at all under the headline "Renters Insurance" or "Homeowners Insurance". They insist the equipment is commercial in nature and since I (truthfully) admit that I have ad revenue from my blog, it's a deal killer. And the "Business Insurance" guys are not certain what to think of equipment worth more than the house just in one room. Haven;t gotten any carrier to want to work with me. Back in Europe it was no deal at all. The insurance carrier was "Provinzial". All they did was tag a few Euros a month more on my parents house insurance policy to cover my Rohde & Schwarz gear.

I'd really like to hear if someone had similar problems and found a solution for this. And also interesting to know would be how it works for you in other countries.

And while we're discussing this, Alarm Systems are probably right along the topic as well. I always wonder what an average neighbourhood burglar would think of modern lab equipment. Some things, like my LeCroy HDO4024, look like a all in one PC. Other things may look meaningless. Does anyone have experience with break-ins either at home or at work and can share some real world results?
 

Offline theatrus

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2014, 05:31:03 pm »
Have you tried listing it under an all-hazard personal article policy?
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Offline aroby

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2014, 05:54:54 pm »
Have you tried the insurance companies that deal more with high value properties, artwork etc?  Chubb and Firemans come to mind.

Anthony
 

Offline KF5OBSTopic starter

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2014, 05:56:52 pm »
Those two responses are great ideas! Since I am new to the US, I may be a little blind to what may be apparent to people like you who lived here for a while. But that's good, that's what Forums are for. I'll check into both options.
 

Offline Fank1

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2014, 10:28:43 pm »
45 cal. auto loader high capacity magazine.
 

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2014, 11:08:07 pm »
.45 and "hi-cap" don't go together well, unless you consider 12 rounds to be hi-cap. ;)
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2014, 11:26:20 pm »
And while we're discussing this, Alarm Systems are probably right along the topic as well. I always wonder what an average neighbourhood burglar would think of modern lab equipment. Some things, like my LeCroy HDO4024, look like a all in one PC. Other things may look meaningless. Does anyone have experience with break-ins either at home or at work and can share some real world results?

I know that test gear turns in cash converters (a pawn shop chain) here in Australia.
Likely the majority of it stolen. They probably wouldn't think to research the item on ebay and see what the going rate it, they just hock it for whatever they can get.
I don't have contents insurance my for lab, but I'm thinking about getting some quotes.
The only thing it would be good for though is a fire. Theft isn't really an issue in the office complex I work in. It's not impossible, but given the after hours swipe card access, regular security patrols, many dozens of offices to chose from on many levels, and no real history of office breakins in the area. So the odds are vanishingly small.
I will have a 24/7 Dropcam soon with recording, but that doesn't stop anyone.
If a fire did happen though, restocking my lab is probably the least of my worries. I could probably rebuild a useful lab and all the video gear for under $10K if it came to that.
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2014, 11:34:18 pm »
45 cal. auto loader high capacity magazine.

I keep a pistol grip 12 gauge scatter cannon close by.  A mouse fart at the other end of the house will wake me up at night so not a chance if I'm home!

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2014, 11:48:00 pm »
Another approach...
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Offline Fingerpuppet

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2014, 12:00:38 am »
45 cal. auto loader high capacity magazine.

I keep a pistol grip 12 gauge scatter cannon close by.  A mouse fart at the other end of the house will wake me up at night so not a chance if I'm home!

I'm a proud National Rifle Association member, but I gotta say it guys.  Gun owners are their own worst enemies in the court of puplic opinion.  Dial the gun-slingin' bravado back off of eleven, please.

 

Offline Tinkerer

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2014, 12:11:55 am »
Another approach...
Until you forget to flip the switch yourself.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2014, 12:12:46 am »
Another approach...

Until you you end up in jail for murder.
Better to pay the insurance.
I know someone that leaves $500 on the counter at home with a note to thieves to take the cash and go in peace. Haven't heard if that works or not...
At work I used to mark my valuable gear with big red faulty tags, that worked a treat!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2014, 12:14:12 am »
Until you forget to flip the switch yourself.

Then that's just Darwin at work, I'm all for that!  :-+
 

Offline nitro2k01

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2014, 01:03:57 am »
At work I used to mark my valuable gear with big red faulty tags, that worked a treat!
How do you know? Did you have an actual break-in? Or colleagues who wanted to use the gear on your bench?
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2014, 01:13:00 am »
How do you know? Did you have an actual break-in? Or colleagues who wanted to use the gear on your bench?

Yes, I'm talking about gear being borrowed and often never returned. In big companies with endless corridors and labs and projects and people, this is a real problem.
 

Offline codeboy2k

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2014, 01:43:43 am »
Quote
45 cal. auto loader high capacity magazine.
Quote
.45 and "hi-cap" don't go together well, unless you consider 12 rounds to be hi-cap. ;)
Quote
I'm a proud National Rifle Association member, but I gotta say it guys.  Gun owners are their own worst enemies in the court of puplic opinion.  Dial the gun-slingin' bravado back off of eleven, please.

You Americans  and your guns... sheesh.. wimps.  We Canadians use knives.. big ones.
 

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2014, 03:56:25 am »
We Americans do knives as well...






But guns are better.  >:D

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Offline Rigby

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2014, 04:05:18 am »
I do not get gun people.  I won't ever.

I would much rather that we, as a society, at least THINK about rehabilitation before we sensationalize killing someone who is in a shittier situation than we are in.

Using a gun to defend your home is your right in most states of the USA. Maybe all.  Fine.  How the hell did we as AMERICANS get to a point where bragging about one's ability to kill an intruder has usurped the desire to figure out why people make choices that drive them to steal, and how to intervene to prevent that outcome?  Why do we punish and not rehabilitate?  Tens of thousands of prisoners in the US, and almost none get actual rehabilitation; they just get education from other inmates on legal loopholes, advice on more efficient crime techniques, and leads on more profitable crimes in general.  Our judicial system is oriented towards exacting revenge on the guilty (and also many innocent) people, rather than giving them what they need to become productive citizens instead of tax burdens for us all.

So if you're going to point a gun, point it at me.  I believe in what is apparently the most UnAmerican belief of all; that we were created equal and that everyone deserves help to become a productive citizen, yes, even if they're over 18.  So point that gun and shoot me, because I am going to believe in rehabilitation over revenge for the rest of my life.  And so are all four of my children.  And all of their children.  And theirs.  So you better choot this commie Rigby right now. 
 

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2014, 04:07:42 am »
Calm down, Dan Brown. 1st, not sure Dave wants a politics argument on here. 2nd, there's a lot of things you apparently don't know about American firearms legislation, judging by your post, so education is needed before a proper debate could be had. So there's that.
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Offline Rigby

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2014, 04:08:51 am »
By the way, the answer is renters/homeowners insurance.  You get revenue from the ads on your site, not the equipment itself.  You don't rent out the equipment or repair then resell it in a storefront.  You use it as a hobby and you get ad revenue from the blog.   That will assuage their concerns most likely.
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2014, 04:10:10 am »
Calm down, Dan Brown. 1st, not sure Dave wants a politics argument on here. 2nd, there's a lot of things you apparently don't know about American firearms legislation, judging by your post, so education is needed before a proper debate could be had. So there's that.

So fucking educate me then, since you know everything.  Also, you didn't counter any point I made.
 

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2014, 04:18:24 am »
Ok, cool it. First, would you snap at someone if they told you you needed to be educated about some facet of electronics before embarking on a project? Probably not. If I had a comprehensive source for you I'd link it, but there aren't many comprehensive and unbiased reviews of US gun laws that I'm aware of. Second, you didn't make any points worth arguing with. You pointed out some of the flaws of our judicial / corrections system, which I wholeheartedly agree with. Then you went on an emotional rant telling people to shoot you if they disagree with you.

I still don't know Dave's opinion on political debates on non-electronics or energy related subjects. I doubt he'd tolerate a religious debate, so I don't know his stance on a gun debate. That's up to him to decide. We're already wildly off-topic, though we already were before you joined the thread.

Basically, I want to know what Dave's stance is regarding discussion on this topic; then if he doesn't mind maybe we can start a thread dedicated to that subject. But for now, you're getting all riled up over something that you should really approach in a calmer fashion.
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Offline FrankenPC

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2014, 04:38:17 am »
I would think that a little creative thinking about deterrents would yield good solutions.  How about a button press digital pad lock?  if you don't press the buttons in the right order, it won't turn on.  The device is rendered useless if someone rips it off.  How about manufacturers offering theft protection as a value add?  Something along the lines of: if it gets ripped off, then they will sell you a replacement for the cost of just the hardware?  If you have homeowners insurance, then that makes the process of getting brand new replacements that much easier.   I know these ideas aren't fabulous.  But, the problem is real and very f'king annoying.  We need to throw some technology smarts at the problem.
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Offline Rigby

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2014, 04:49:32 am »
Ok, cool it. First, would you snap at someone if they told you you needed to be educated about some facet of electronics before embarking on a project? Probably not. If I had a comprehensive source for you I'd link it, but there aren't many comprehensive and unbiased reviews of US gun laws that I'm aware of. Second, you didn't make any points worth arguing with. You pointed out some of the flaws of our judicial / corrections system, which I wholeheartedly agree with. Then you went on an emotional rant telling people to shoot you if they disagree with you.

I still don't know Dave's opinion on political debates on non-electronics or energy related subjects. I doubt he'd tolerate a religious debate, so I don't know his stance on a gun debate. That's up to him to decide. We're already wildly off-topic, though we already were before you joined the thread.

Basically, I want to know what Dave's stance is regarding discussion on this topic; then if he doesn't mind maybe we can start a thread dedicated to that subject. But for now, you're getting all riled up over something that you should really approach in a calmer fashion.

Our posts will get deleted if we're out of line. 
The "point a gun at me instead" is a short circuiting disarmament technique. Can't use a threat against me if I suggested it first. One can only meet my escalation and not exceed it.  I've been in enough gun control "discussions" to know how quickly death threats come about.  Removing the temptation to threaten me forces my ...opponent (can't think of a better term at the moment) to consider the other things I'm saying and argue those points, rather than just go straight to threats.
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2014, 05:15:45 am »
I would think that a little creative thinking about deterrents would yield good solutions.  How about a button press digital pad lock?  if you don't press the buttons in the right order, it won't turn on.  The device is rendered useless if someone rips it off.  How about manufacturers offering theft protection as a value add?  Something along the lines of: if it gets ripped off, then they will sell you a replacement for the cost of just the hardware?  If you have homeowners insurance, then that makes the process of getting brand new replacements that much easier.   I know these ideas aren't fabulous.  But, the problem is real and very f'king annoying.  We need to throw some technology smarts at the problem.

Short term, I would say that insurance and physical security are the answer.  Long term, just do a better job of parenting, as a society, and we simply won't have lots of thieves anymore.

That last sentence may create vigorous objection in you, but consider the possibility that how one raises their children will stay with those children their entire lives.  If one raises a child in an environment where taking without permission is not punished, and the reward of the taken item(s) not removed, that person will not see a lot of reason to obey property rights as an adult.  My brother was one of these people, and after spending 1/2 of his life in prison by the age of 36, he finally got tired of it, or got good enough to not get caught.  He told me that he considered any items he could reach without being handcuffed as fair game.  That is, if he could get to something he wanted and get away with the item(s) without being arrested, that the current owner didn't really want it at all.  He said that this is a common justification.

My point is that people who are raised even halfway properly know better.  If society just stepped up its parenting, theft would effectively disappear in a single generation, barring any apocolyptic scenarios which would make stealing necessary for survival, anyway.  (The Yellowstone caldera scares the wizz out of me.)
 


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