Laser Cubiio Debunked by AvE

[Homer J Simpson]

[Kilo Tango]

He's quite good, he knows his stuff. I think his evaluation is pretty accurate.

What does he say at the end ?

Ken

[ChrisLX200]

That laser is just so dangerous it's not true Even assuming it functioned as expected, if it's able to burn at long distances (a foot or more) who would let a kid anywhere near such a thing (and they WILL get hold of it..). If they used a collimated (parallel) output beam then the 'focal' distance would not be critical, but then it might be classed as a weapon! Ordinarily such burning lasers use converging lenses to limit the focal point to a very narrow range, outside of that range (depth of field) the laser beam would be out of focus and thus the energy is dissipated over a wider area. So yes, it could focus over a range of distances with suitable optics - but honestly, I would not want to be in the same room as it. Lasers of this type are not toys, not something to mess about with carving your name onto cookies, and not cutting paper patterns for kids to play with. An extremely ill-thought out idea regardless of the implementation.

[smckee]

I joined this forum just to respond to these posts about Cubiio.

It was delivered, it works, it is safe. You've confused a marketing video above with real life. Also some changes were made before delivery. It now comes with a safety shield, removable. It is pretty darn easy to measure the distance from the laser to the target with the shield in place and then when using it without simply use that measurement to make sure the cutting beam will be properly focused. And yes use common sense to keep target and laser parallel.

Safety. The only way to operate the laser is via a smartphone app. This requires the user to be able to log in to the phone first. Then when inside the app, before the laser is engaged, you must enter a six digit code. In order for a "kid" to hurt themselves with the laser they need both your phone password and the six digit code for the laser. There is even a special menu you have to go to when the laser is not connected to the housing with the base plate in place to turn on expert mode. Granted that isn't behind any extra security but it is another step.

[Red Squirrel]

The safety aspect of this is what scares me the most.  a 1mw laser can blind you, a laser that can engrave is going to be closer to the 1w range if higher.  I don't want to be anywhere near that without proper eye protection.  Even the refraction off a shiny surface is going to be enough to do you in.  Something of this nature should be operated within fixed machinery with proper shields etc.  It's no toy.

[BillB]

Who doesn't love lasers!

But, besides the issues AvE raises regarding performance and potential problems, I've got to wonder how many ambulance chasing lawyers are just salivating over this kickstarter page?  We've forced bicycle manufacturers to put warning labels on their products warning people not to ride it at night, and McDonalds to put practically black box warnings on their coffee cups to let people know the contents are hot!

Letting loose an 800mW laser onto our dimwitted and greedy consumer base is an idea that will last as long as it takes for the first kickstartee to receive, unbox, power-up and blind themselves with this device.

 

[dmills]

800mW is class IV (in the old scheme, I have not tried to keep up) so the direct, specular AND **DIFFUSE** reflections are considered dangerous to vision, while still clearly not being powerful enough to be seriously useful.

A safety shutter that is removable and not interlocked is not a safety shutter. 

Does this thing have an FDA approval number for the US market (Ask not how lasers ended up under the FDA over there)? While I think some of the CDRH requirements can sometimes be a little over the top, the 5 second delay, emission indicator and mechanical shutter are all things I can totally support.

As to focal length providing safety, lets do some maths....

The assumed diameter of the pupil is 7mm, so how much area does a ~1W beam have to have spread to to reduce the power incident in a 7mm diameter circle to below 1mW (And that assumes a visible beam)?

7mm diameter is 38.5mm^2, so to get the power density down to 1mW in that area you are looking at 38,500mm^2 = a 111mm radius circle, that says short lenses and a lot of mechanically enforced clearance to me (Someone please check my arithmetic).

Regards, Dan.

[Fred27]

If they've shipped, then let's see some real reviews and demos. I'm sure all the doubters would be happy to be proven wrong, but I suspect that won't happen.

[Mr. Scram]

Who doesn't love lasers!

But, besides the issues AvE raises regarding performance and potential problems, I've got to wonder how many ambulance chasing lawyers are just salivating over this kickstarter page?  We've forced bicycle manufacturers to put warning labels on their products warning people not to ride it at night, and McDonalds to put practically black box warnings on their coffee cups to let people know the contents are hot!

Letting loose an 800mW laser onto our dimwitted and greedy consumer base is an idea that will last as long as it takes for the first kickstartee to receive, unbox, power-up and blind themselves with this device.

Without wanting to start a war, not selling to the US seems to be a good start of the "not getting sued" plan. It's a legislative minefield for any company, but especially those without brimming war chests.

[BillB]

Without wanting to start a war, not selling to the US seems to be a good start of the "not getting sued" plan. It's a legislative minefield for any company, but especially those without brimming war chests.

Hey!  We aren't even in the top 5 most litigious countries (see Europe for that).  But, we do have the most lawyers per capita and a can't-do, lack-of-personal-accountability attitude!

[hermit]

The assumed diameter of the pupil is 7mm,

7mm in total darkness is optimistic for an adult.  Maybe a child.  Check some amateur astronomer groups if you want a realistic pupil dilation figure.  Of course, I'm not sure how much that matters here.

[ChrisLX200]

The assumed diameter of the pupil is 7mm,

7mm in total darkness is optimistic for an adult.  Maybe a child.  Check some amateur astronomer groups if you want a realistic pupil dilation figure.  Of course, I'm not sure how much that matters here.

More like 5mm for ~50yr-old adult, but I wouldn't like to live on the difference if it comes to saving my eyesight.

[BillB]

The assumed diameter of the pupil is 7mm,

7mm in total darkness is optimistic for an adult.  Maybe a child.  Check some amateur astronomer groups if you want a realistic pupil dilation figure.  Of course, I'm not sure how much that matters here.

Don't forget, half of those using this will probably be high at the time, and cocaine, marijuana, and amphetamines cause Mydriasis! 

[dmills]

7mm is what is used by the international laser display association for doing MPE calculations for shows, which I think is where I got it.

I think it originates in one of the laser safety standards which are surely what any designer of a laser system for sale will have been reading?

Regards, Dan.

[chickenHeadKnob]

Heck I am an old guy and I have always used the 7mm number as a minimum  exit pupil standard a rifle scope should have to be good in low light. Can't recall where I got it from. Received wisdom going back to the 1970's

[ChrisLX200]

7mm is about max on average for a young _dark adapted_ pupil dilation. It may take ~20min in darkness to reach that (go to an astronomers Star Party and shine a white light - then watch out for the bricks flying your way because you ruined their dark adaption )

[thm_w]

I joined this forum just to respond to these posts about Cubiio.

It was delivered, it works, it is safe. You've confused a marketing video above with real life. Also some changes were made before delivery. It now comes with a safety shield, removable. It is pretty darn easy to measure the distance from the laser to the target with the shield in place and then when using it without simply use that measurement to make sure the cutting beam will be properly focused. And yes use common sense to keep target and laser parallel.

Maybe you can clarify some things for us and take some photos of items you've used it on. In the video below I see one person received the unit but I don't see any safety shield. Unless you are saying the safety shield is simply a cover for the laser that can be removed at any time?

Full kit: youtube.com/watch?v=nfnQH_5x80Y
Just the module: youtube.com/watch?v=x3CyKtngg00

http://www.pcstore.com.tw/muherz/M32877274.htm

[PlainName]

In the video below I see one person ...

who has no appreciation of safety when using knives. I would think lasers don't even get on his radar.

[helius]

Light adaptation is not primarily an effect of pupil size. Pupil size is the first part of the system to adapt to light level changes, but the vast majority of adaptation is caused by up/downregulation of rhodopsin production in the retinal cells. It is the latter phenomenon that takes hours to occur; pupils can dilate and close in seconds.

[dmills]

But it **IS** pupil size that is important for incident power calculations when the concern is heating of the retina by a stray laser beam.

Regards, Dan.

[james_s]

I have a 1W 445nm laser and it's actually somewhat terrifying. The spot on a wall is blindingly bright from across the room and many materials will quickly catch fire when placed in the path. It's fun to play with but not something to take lightly. I remember when a class IV laser meant a huge water cooled beast that usually required 3 phase power and now I have one that fits in the palm of my hand and will run off batteries.

[Mr. Scram]

I have a 1W 445nm laser and it's actually somewhat terrifying. The spot on a wall is blindingly bright from across the room and many materials will quickly catch fire when placed in the path. It's fun to play with but not something to take lightly. I remember when a class IV laser meant a huge water cooled beast that usually required 3 phase power and now I have one that fits in the palm of my hand and will run off batteries.

That enough power for diffuse reflections to be literally blinding. Be careful with something like that and wear laser goggles.

[james_s]

Yes I'm well aware of the safety risks, I've been into lasers for many years, got a 10W CO2 and a collection of older gas lasers too.

[mbless]

7mm is what is used by the international laser display association for doing MPE calculations for shows, which I think is where I got it.

I think it originates in one of the laser safety standards which are surely what any designer of a laser system for sale will have been reading?

Regards, Dan.

Correct, per ANSI Z136.1-2014