General > General Technical Chat
LED lighting and planned obsolescence, intentional or not.
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gnuarm:

--- Quote from: tautech on August 05, 2023, 09:11:17 am ---I think we as consumers also should share some of the blame when instead we should be insisting on product MTBF specifications.

--- End quote ---

Take a crap in the box, but put a warranty on the outside!  Yeah, good idea. 

These are lightbulbs, not components in a design.  Almost no one returns a burnt out light bulb and the few that do get returned are tossed in the trash by the store.  No one is held accountable, no matter what it says on the outside of the box!
Marco:

--- Quote from: Kleinstein on August 05, 2023, 02:48:17 pm ---Some grading system for the lifetime would be ideal, but it is essentially impossible to test that reliable up-front and with possible minor product changes over time.

--- End quote ---
A documented estimate based on projected MTBF of components in standardized luminaires (which for GU10 should be recessed ceiling lights with a glass cover) would still be useful. If their documentation is for polymer/film caps and they threw in wet electrolytics, that's just plain fraud. If they just swapped parts and their best effort estimate stays the same or better, then let them keep using the same type number.

I don't need a guarantee, just a best effort estimate. It will be easy enough to see if they are taking the mickey, BOMs are small and failure modes predictable.

If you start doing it for complex appliances, then it would be far harder to judge honesty.
TimFox:
Last I heard, a fundamental thermal problem with LED bulb-shaped objects that fail prematurely is that the heat-producing and thermally-sensitive electronics are mounted near the base while the actual LEDs are spaced apart in the bulbous globe.
PlainName:

--- Quote from: Psi on August 05, 2023, 09:15:31 am ---There's also the people living pay check to pay check who will always buy the cheapest version they can get their hands on.
If cheap rubbish didn't exist they would perhaps have to deal with less light in their house until they could afford a 2nd light but overall they would be much better off and have more money (not having to replace it every year).

--- End quote ---

That assumes they could afford the upfront cost of the 'better' light in the first place. People living in a precarious financial state don't have the funds to invest in the future. Buy a good light and something else doesn't get bought. Or buy a cheap light and the other thing. So it's going to cost them more in the future because they'll buy many cheap lights instead of one good one, but when you don't have the funds to invest that's what happens. Same applies to food (and everything else) - they pay more for their food because they can only afford single-portion sizes and/or poor quality, whereas someone with money will buy in bulk and save overall.
nctnico:

--- Quote from: TimFox on August 05, 2023, 08:06:13 pm ---Last I heard, a fundamental thermal problem with LED bulb-shaped objects that fail prematurely is that the heat-producing and thermally-sensitive electronics are mounted near the base while the actual LEDs are spaced apart in the bulbous globe.

--- End quote ---
This isn't a problem for LED lamps specifically. Some halogen lamps also suffer from this problem leading to extremely short lives for the lamps.

What worries me more is that some LED lamps (or better put: light fixtures) can not be seperated from their fitting at all. So if the light fixture fails, it needs to be replaced entirely instead of just changing the lamp part.
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