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| LED lighting and planned obsolescence, intentional or not. |
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| Psi:
--- Quote from: PlainName on August 05, 2023, 10:40:13 pm --- --- Quote from: Psi on August 05, 2023, 10:35:59 pm --- --- Quote from: PlainName on August 05, 2023, 10:23:31 pm --- --- Quote ---There's no more upfront cost of the "better" light. The cost is the same. The only difference is the value of the resistor that sets its output wattage --- End quote --- That's a manufacturer thing and completely irrelevant to the punter. All they know is the 50p job from China is doable whereas the £15 one from Osram isn't, and you know which will have the resistor of an appropriate value. --- End quote --- ah, so your argument is that any law for planned obsolescence wouldn't work because ... --- End quote --- I've said nothing for or against any such law, regulation, guideline, whatever. You are projecting what you wanted me to have said, but I have not. Please stop. --- End quote --- I started with 'ah, so your argument is' and had a question mark on that sentence because I was not sure if I was understanding your point correctly and I was happy to be corrected if I was wrong. There is no need to get angry here. --- Quote from: PlainName on August 05, 2023, 10:40:13 pm ---That's a manufacturer thing and completely irrelevant to the punter. All they know is the 50p job from China is doable whereas the £15 one from Osram isn't, and you know which will have the resistor of an appropriate value. --- End quote --- So what is your point here? Yes, cheap the china ones have resistors that run the LED hot currently. Ideally we want china to put resistors on them to make them run at a lower temp. Local companies order and review china parts to purchase in bulk based on their requirements. If their requirements are changed by some new law and they start to put pressure on their china supplier to manufacture them at a lower wattage they will. Just like they put pressure on the china suppliers to manufacture them with correct earthing and mains safety for local regulations. It may not be perfect 100% of the time but for the most part stuff you buy in the store complies with local regulations. |
| PlainName:
--- Quote from: Psi on August 05, 2023, 10:54:19 pm --- --- Quote from: PlainName on August 05, 2023, 10:40:13 pm ---That's a manufacturer thing and completely irrelevant to the punter. All they know is the 50p job from China is doable whereas the £15 one from Osram isn't, and you know which will have the resistor of an appropriate value. --- End quote --- So what is your point here. --- End quote --- I was refuting the idea that --- Quote ---If cheap rubbish didn't exist they would perhaps have to deal with less light in their house until they could afford a 2nd light but overall they would be much better off and have more money (not having to replace it every year). --- End quote --- and --- Quote --- Buy cheap, buy twice... one issue will be a lot of people don't comprehend this and do buy cheap LED bulbs that end in landfill --- End quote --- is practical for those of little means. 'Buy once' can be a luxury that poor people simply can't afford. |
| tom66:
--- Quote from: PlainName on August 05, 2023, 11:05:30 pm --- 'Buy once' can be a luxury that poor people simply can't afford. --- End quote --- I'm not exactly buying luxury bulbs. I bought a three-pack of 60W equivalent LED bulbs from Costco, and I'm still using two of those today (the other one isn't dead - it's just not in use). I think it was under £10 for all three and that was almost a decade ago when LED bulbs were still kinda pricey. The cheapest bulbs are the £1 to £2 a pop bulbs, and yes, those don't last long, but if someone is genuinely struggling between £2 and £4 for a bulb, they may well not even be able to afford the electricity for that bulb and there are deeper issues at play here. I'm using Ikea smart bulbs now, which cost £7 for a Zigbee compliant GU10, and they sell equivalent non-Zigbee ones for £3. |
| jonpaul:
RE fail rates and reliability: From a Retired lighting electronics/power, designed fluro/CFL/HID/cinema and LED ballasts. For reliability, a system approach considers: Mains power quality/transients Component derating, ambient/hotspot temp in ballast or power supply LED quality, thermal arrangement, hot spot temp. We can apply the Arrhenius rule of chemical reactions doubling activity with every 10 deg C increase. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation Thus a semiconductor junction running at 100 deg C will have 1/2 the life of one at 90 deg C Finally most electronics failure rates can be plotted as a "bathtub" curve over life: High.. Infant mortality low ...mid life increasing ..end of life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve Hope this is of interest, Jon |
| Psi:
--- Quote from: PlainName on August 05, 2023, 11:05:30 pm --- --- Quote from: Psi on August 05, 2023, 10:54:19 pm --- --- Quote from: PlainName on August 05, 2023, 10:40:13 pm ---That's a manufacturer thing and completely irrelevant to the punter. All they know is the 50p job from China is doable whereas the £15 one from Osram isn't, and you know which will have the resistor of an appropriate value. --- End quote --- So what is your point here. --- End quote --- I was refuting the idea that --- Quote ---If cheap rubbish didn't exist they would perhaps have to deal with less light in their house until they could afford a 2nd light but overall they would be much better off and have more money (not having to replace it every year). --- End quote --- --- End quote --- I think I see were our discussion went off track. That post was not intended to be taken in isolation, and I could have worded it better to avoid that confusion, sorry. When I said --- Quote ---If cheap rubbish didn't exist they would perhaps have to deal with less light in their house --- End quote --- I was referring to if it didn't exist due to the new regulation that was being discussed, if it was made using a resistor that turned it into a product that would actually last, but had a bit less light output. The light reduction is why I said they might need a 2nd light. But at least they would pay the same cost and get something does the job of lighting the room and doesn't need replacing for many years. |
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