Author Topic: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?  (Read 8051 times)

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Offline bigfoot22Topic starter

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LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« on: January 20, 2023, 10:25:55 am »
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2023, 02:53:30 am by bigfoot22 »
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Offline BrianHG

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2023, 10:57:33 am »
I thought the cheap led lights flicker at 100/120hz, not 50/60hz.
 

Online Psi

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2023, 11:00:50 am »
If you want zero flicker, illuminate your room using recessed LED strip running on DC. (normal type, not addressable)
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Online NiHaoMike

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2023, 01:24:51 pm »
Maybe what's causing the eye strain/migraines isn't the flicker maybe its the intensity of the LED light and the colour spectrum output.

I feel perfectly fine underneath a good quality Osram CFL and Incandescent bulbs yet they flicker a lot.

Might have something to do with blue light.
Such a high color temperature is going to have a lot of blue light. Look for "warm white" LEDs, with a color temperature of less than 3500K.
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2023, 01:26:23 pm »
I've used HPM/Legrand downlights in my home for years. Zero flicker, at any dim level, even on video.

LED Benchmark is a great resource: http://www.ledbenchmark.com/index.html
 

Offline rdl

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2023, 09:16:53 pm »
6500k is very blue. Normal "Daylight" is generally considered to be 5000k. Personally I think even 5000k is too blue, at least for indoors after sunset. Maybe you should try one of the adjustable kind.
 
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Offline Benta

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2023, 10:13:44 pm »
6500 K is extreme, even for "cool white".
Personally I prefer "warm white", which is 2700 K (Osram). No flicker at all, BTW.
 
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Online thm_w

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2023, 10:47:03 pm »
6500k is very blue. Normal "Daylight" is generally considered to be 5000k. Personally I think even 5000k is too blue, at least for indoors after sunset. Maybe you should try one of the adjustable kind.

Yeah, mid-day sunlight is 5000-5500k, there is zero reason to purchase a 6500k bulb unless its for some specific efficiency reason.
Surprised they even make them: http://honnex-go.com/productsshow.asp?id=823
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Offline rdl

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2023, 11:51:14 pm »
I remember years ago a study done by Philips where the conclusion was that for street lighting something around 4100-4300k was probably the best choice. That has surely biased me because I think down below 3000k is too yellow and 5000K or higher is way too blue. I think the LED bulb manufacturers went a bit overboard in making LED bulbs look the same as incandescent.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2023, 01:47:50 am »
I like higher color temperatures for task lighting and lower for relaxing in living spaces. 5000k is perfect for kitchen, laundry rooms and garage. 6500k is nice for directed task lighting like a workbench, I find colors really pop under a good 6500k source, it's also the standard for white on TV and film.
 
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Online IanB

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2023, 01:59:41 am »
I always choose "warm white" (2700 K). I much prefer the warm relaxing light quality, similar to incandescent light. Anything like 5000 K or daylight, I find almost painful to experience. It's cold, clinical, industrial, harsh.

Another important thing is, whatever color temperature you choose, make sure it has a good CRI, 90+ or 95+, for good color rendition. That is also really important for eye comfort.
 
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Online themadhippy

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2023, 02:41:47 am »
Quote
I want to join the LED bandwagon but can't because of the flickering issues, I have to use CFL or Incan or T5-T8 fluro.
you are aware the el cheapo standard florry fittings  flickers?its good enough to be a safety issue with rotating machines.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2023, 06:39:02 am »
Did any T5 fixtures over there use magnetic ballasts? Here the T8 lamps 4' and larger have always been electronic ballast and so have the larger T5 lamps. The only time I saw magnetic ballasts was with lamps small enough to use a choke and now those are all gone due to regulations mandating electronic ballasts. I'm not convinced there was a benefit to moving small lamps from choke ballasts to the cheap nasty electronic ballasts that are unreliable RFI bombs but it is what it is.
 

Online IanB

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2023, 08:33:31 am »
Wow. The stark white glare of the light in your work area gives me a headache just from looking at the photo. Sooner you than me.

IMHO, colours "popping" is more to do with the CRI than to do with the colour temperature.

I have GE "High Definition" and Philips "Ultra Definition" bulbs, both in warm white, that give very nice colour rendition in spite of the warm tone.
 
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Offline EPAIII

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2023, 09:14:37 am »
I changed all the incandescent tubes in my house and shop to the Sunco brand LEDs sold on the web. They can be connected directly to the AC power so I also removed all the ballasts. This not only improves reliability but also is more efficient as the ballasts eat up power. I did not need to change the fixtures, but did replace two due to broken plastic lenses. More light in all areas with fewer bulbs. I now have two or three tubes in the four tube fixtures.

Zero problems for over three years now. No dimming. No flicker - I had a lot before the change. No problems of any type. One thing I have noticed is they will glow for a second or two after being turned off. So they probably have a longer persistence than many brands.
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Online IanB

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2023, 09:30:39 am »
That might be because you are viewing the images on a LED screen?

No, I have actually tried "daylight" fluorescent tubes, but I really don't like them. Just personal preference. I have Philips warm white (3000 K) T12 tubes in my garage with a CRI of 88 and I find the light quite pleasant. I hope they last, because it seems fluorescent tubes are going to be banned before long and LEDs will be the only option.
 
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Online wraper

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2023, 09:50:14 am »
Maybe buy bulb models also available in EU. Significantly flickery bulbs are prohibited here and every bulb must have a test report (fiche) like this https://www.v-tac.eu/images/certificates/Fiche/217351.pdf
The easiest way to test for flickering is with smartphone camera with anti banding disabled. Also if bulb has an SMPS inside, it should be flicker-free.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 09:56:00 am by wraper »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2023, 12:29:32 am »
I changed all the incandescent tubes in my house and shop to the Sunco brand LEDs sold on the web. They can be connected directly to the AC power so I also removed all the ballasts. This not only improves reliability but also is more efficient as the ballasts eat up power. I did not need to change the fixtures, but did replace two due to broken plastic lenses. More light in all areas with fewer bulbs. I now have two or three tubes in the four tube fixtures.

Zero problems for over three years now. No dimming. No flicker - I had a lot before the change. No problems of any type. One thing I have noticed is they will glow for a second or two after being turned off. So they probably have a longer persistence than many brands.

LED lights will glow visibly on a shockingly low amount of current. The LED shop light over my workbench glows dimly when it's switched off due to capacitive coupling. The lights in my girlfriend's kitchen have the switch on the neutral (a can of worms I've been meaning to open at some point) and the LED fixture I installed glows noticeably when it's off.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2023, 12:31:48 am »
Wow. The stark white glare of the light in your work area gives me a headache just from looking at the photo. Sooner you than me.

IMHO, colours "popping" is more to do with the CRI than to do with the colour temperature.

I have GE "High Definition" and Philips "Ultra Definition" bulbs, both in warm white, that give very nice colour rendition in spite of the warm tone.

That might be because you are viewing the images on a LED screen?

Who knows!

I will consider getting some warm white high CRI tubes, thankfully because the ballast can accept any T8 36w bulb I can swap them out for just the price of the tubes. Can't say the same for LED.

I did get some warm white tubes thrown in with the light batten for free that I can try out too.

There are two types of LED retrofit tubes on the market. One type is meant to work with the original ballast in place, and the other type you bypass the ballast and wire it straight to the line. Both fit in the existing fixtures. I have some Philips LED tubes in my kitchen and they work well, elsewhere I've stuck with the T8 fluorescent, I've always been fascinated by lighting and LEDs while great are unfortunately a bit boring.
 

Online Psi

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2023, 12:34:23 am »
Once you go LED strip you never go back.
Get some good quality strips and be done with it, ideally 3x (warm white, cool white and amber) for mixing as desired.
Or you can go high CRI warm white + RGB strip.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 12:43:08 am by Psi »
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Offline james_s

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2023, 12:35:15 am »
Personally I think LED strips are kind of boring, and most of them have poor CRI.
 
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Online Psi

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2023, 12:38:52 am »
You can go the ultra high CRI LED strip if you want. But they are really expensive compared to non high CRI strips.
YUJI LEDs does them, but you're looking at like $80-140 for 5 meters of 95+CRI  16.8W/m  1200lm/m
https://store.yujiintl.com/products/cri-max-cri-95-dim-to-warm-led-flexible-strip-1800k-3000k-human-centric-lighting
https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/high-cri-white-led-strips/products/cri-max-cri-95-high-efficacy-high-brightness-led-flexible-strip-5600k

It's not really that expensive when you consider it should last 20+ years, especially if you ensure the LED junction temps are under 50C.
With LED strips the heat is not concentrated all in one spot like with a normal LED lamp, so strips last effectively forever if used correctly.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 12:43:51 am by Psi »
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Online themadhippy

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2023, 12:40:47 am »
Quote
There are two types of LED retrofit tubes on the market. One type is meant to work with the original ballast in place, and the other type you bypass the ballast and wire it straight to the line.
and the type were you need to replace or bypass the starter
 

Offline james_s

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2023, 01:04:30 am »
and the type were you need to replace or bypass the starter

I wonder why? Starters have not been a thing here for lamps larger than 18" for around half a century when rapid start autotransformer ballasts took over, but when a starter is used it is wired between one of the pins on one end of the lamp and one of the pins on the other end with power going to the remaining pins through a choke. I can't think of a reason off hand that simply removing the starter would not be sufficient.
 

Online IanB

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Re: LED LIGHTS. Any good flicker free ones?
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2023, 01:12:36 am »
Once you go LED strip you never go back.

I might be forced to go that way eventually, but the fluorescents I have in my garage produce a claimed 5200 lumens per fixture (2600 lumens per tube), and a fixture draws 54 W, giving about 96 lumens per watt. This lm/W figure seems comparable with typical LEDs and the illumination is very comfortable on the eyes. It doesn't have any of that harsh, green, industrial feel that many fluorescents have.
 


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