LED street lights

[Australianstig]

Here's how I think LED street lights should be done 

22W LED by way of five 4.4W 12VDC COB panels

[Zero999]

There are some LED street lights near my house.

I think they should install metal detectors on street lights on main roads, then they only turn on when a car passes by. They'd need to have some form of communication network, so when a car passes, the lights over the next mile or so ahead turn on in advance.

[Australianstig]

I'd rather they stay on providing a lot of light while sipping the juice for security

[mariush]

No, I'd rather see the night sky, the stars and whatever else is there, instead of having light polution all over the town.

To that effect, LED lights CAN be made to reflect the large majority of their light down instead of having huge spots of light ...  If it was up to me, I'd also ban large ad panels on streets in the cities after let's say 10 pm, and even ask stores to turn off flashing logos and banners and displays in the store front (basically anything that's not required by insurance or whatever to prevent theft)

It's a sort of a myth that lightning is better for security, there were towns which killed the lightning in the city and the crime rate didn't really increase that much.
Just like some towns killed all traffic lights and it was actually an improvement:

Accident-free zone: The German town which scrapped all traffic lights and road signs : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1028740/Accident-free-zone-The-German-town-scrapped-traffic-lights-road-signs.html

If you find yourself crossing the road in the German town of Bohmte, look both ways – and then perhaps check again.
It has scrapped all its traffic lights and road signs in a radical experiment designed to make the streets safer. Yesterday, the local council said the scheme was a complete success.
In the four weeks since the signs were ripped up, there has not been a single accident.
[..]
Four weeks ago, Bohmte banned traffic lights and warning signs, including those instructing drivers to give way or stop.
Only two rules remain – drivers cannot go above 30 mph, the German speed limit for city driving, and everyone has to yield to the right, regardless of whether it is a car, a bike or a mother with a pushchair.
Officials revealed there have been no shunts, bumps or pedestrian injuries in the month since the scheme started.
Previously, there was at least one serious crash every week and scores of lesser 'fender-benders'.

European Towns Remove Traffic Signs to Make Streets Safer : http://www.dw.com/en/european-towns-remove-traffic-signs-to-make-streets-safer/a-2143663-1



BUT it's also an issue of education, and people being civilized. I can see areas where there are a lot of poor people, those people would be "encouraged" by the lack of lightning.

later edit:  Too much light can also affect your health, if you don't believe me see this :

Missing the Dark: Health Effects of Light Pollution : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2627884/   (Scroll down to Resetting the Circadian Clock and continue reading)
Environ Health Perspect. 2009 Jan; 117(1): A20–A27. PMCID: PMC2627884 Environews


BBC : Light pollution 'affects 80% of global population' :  http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36492596

[SteveyG]

I much prefer the 35W SOX lamps, cheap to run, long service life etc. I love LEDs, but they're completely missold as the eco dream for street lights.

[CJay]

There are some LED street lights near my house.

I think they should install metal detectors on street lights on main roads, then they only turn on when a car passes by. They'd need to have some form of communication network, so when a car passes, the lights over the next mile or so ahead turn on in advance.

Funnily enough a few years ago I knew a guy who worked at a company designing street lighting with a UHF low power comms network that allowed them to form remotely manageable lighting systems, each light could be individually addressed, queried, turned on or off, they could be assigned a 'group' ID so they'd work as one unit and they could also act as repeaters so you could daisy chain streets and for a network.

They could also dim to save energy.

He wasn't best impressed when I suggested they could be hacked for sound to light by the passing boy racers.

[rollatorwieltje]

Last year a new highway was opened here, with LED lighting:


Highway is a bit of a silly term, considering a significant part was actually constructed below ground level. They used low mounted LED lights here to reduce light pollution.

[Psi]

I swear the LED street lights here are using an array of 4x 100W COBs
damn they are bright.

[b_force]

It's kind of ironic in that area. There are so many green houses that at some places the sky is completely lit at night. (which is to bad because there are some beautiful areas).
To bad that there/were so many problems with the new A4 highway.

My only doubt with LED would be realibilty. On paper they should be better but in practice the realibility can be pretty poor. Also the power supplies are not always that good.

Next is the investment in developing and upgrading excisting systems and areas.

Btw, the price difference and usage in LED lights and light bulbs is huge in different countries. In NL and GER LED lights are super cheap nowadays. In some households people only comsume <50-100W to light the whole house. In NZ/AUS people stil use 60-100W light bulbs. The main reason is that LED bulbs are very expensive or just the crappy (and ugly) old ones

[Ampera]

Why not just use motion sensors? And there is a damn good reason for street lights aside from security. They light up the street! More light on the street makes it easier for drivers, especially those with lesser night vision, to see where they are going. I've never seen motion detectors for lights, which may not work for Sodium lamps like in the US, but for LED lamps, it makes sense. And I bet some fancy statistics could be run to fine tune the sensitivity so to light the street when cars or a lot of pedestrian activity comes by, but to turn off and to keep off when things like wild animals come by.

Street lights aren't there solely to reduce crime. They are there so you can see where your going, and even though cars have lamps, they can sometimes be pretty shit and they don't illuminate much.

Also LED Street lights? What is this madness? I've never seen such hogwash in the US. We bathe in the golden glow of our sodium lamps.

[rstofer]

Even in the California Central Valley, LED streetlight are starting to show up.  A couple of years ago, some agency built an overpass over the train tracks to eliminate a crossing.  The roadway is lighted with LED fixtures.

They show up as replacement lights as well simply due to reduced maintenance costs.  It really costs a lot of money to send trucks out every day to replace lamps here and there all over the city.  Mass relamping, a favorite of the lamp manufacturers, can't be justified either.  I wonder if there is a magic number of fixtures per square mile for an average city.

In residential neighborhoods, I believe that streetlights are there for security.  True, driving is easier if the roadway is lit up but in some areas keeping track of miscreants is more important.  Our IR cameras could see a little farther when the streetlights were on.

[Lightages]

LED lighting should not be used outside. Why? It is a broad spectrum light that cannot be filtered out in photography, such as in astrophotography.

Lighting at night is a problem with health of those exposed to it. Lighting at night aids in crime, it doesn't hinder it. Lighting at night all the time where it isn't needed is an obvious waste of money and resources. These are either facts, or highly correlated effects. There are many studies to show these things.

Humans are stupid in general. Most people feel safer in light at night and think that they are better off when it is actually harmful in the long term.

Lighting up the night also has adverse effects on wild life. It disrupts their normal patterns and can confuse their reproductive cycles.

Lighting at night is generally a bad thing with the appearance of being a good thing.

These are not my opinions, but rather statements based on the evidence available.

LED lights just make the biological and light pollution effects worse with less energy cost.

[System Error Message]

turning off the lights in asia not recommended as everyone knows asians cant drive.

There is a joke from the onion on this relating to daylight savings and turning on street lamps to reduce crime but it might be in their movie.

[rstofer]

Lighting at night is a problem with health of those exposed to it. Lighting at night aids in crime, it doesn't hinder it. Lighting at night all the time where it isn't needed is an obvious waste of money and resources. These are either facts, or highly correlated effects. There are many studies to show these things.

I guess it would depend on who did the study and who paid for it!

Ask a cop what they would think about not having streetlights and how that might relate to crime.  They are the experts, everybody else is just guessing or trying to make a sponsored point.

Here is a brief report re: streetlight outages in Chicago:
http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/Report-Links-Chicago-Crime-to-Streetlight-Outages-265639931.html

[klunkerbus]

Also LED Street lights? What is this madness? I've never seen such hogwash in the US. We bathe in the golden glow of our sodium lamps.

Replacing the traditional street lamps with LED versions is all the rage here in my part of the US (Denver metro)... 

[b_force]

A lot of statements all of a sudden, which all are scientifically very weak.

(But sometimes I forget that politics is not about finding the facts, but just following random subjective ideas)

[CatalinaWOW]

I'd rather they stay on providing a lot of light while sipping the juice for security

When I was in college I had an intern job working for the local power company.  Drew up installations for what the company called "Area Lights".  They were mercury vapor street lights hooked to the power grid and with a light sensor to turn on at night.  They were mostly sold for "security" reasons.  Lots and lots were sold. It was a great income source because they were basically an infinite time payment. 

But the local police didn't think they helped reduce crime at all.  Their conversations with the people they did catch led them to believe the criminal element actually preferred having some light so they could see what they were doing.  Much less conspicuous to have an overhead light than to be running around with a flashlight (torch).  Makes sense.  Is consistent with the observation that most burglaries in my area occur during daylight.

I would second the objection to LED lights because of the effect on astronomy.  Unless they are designed to emit a single frequency of light, preferably aligned with the existing sodium lines or mercury lines in most current lighting.

[rdl]

A big problem I can see is if the LEDs used are of inappropriate color temperature. I recall when LED street lighting was first being installed in the US there were complaints of then being "too blue". Anything much over 4000K is probably not a good idea for night illumination.

[b_force]

A big problem I can see is if the LEDs used are of inappropriate color temperature. I recall when LED street lighting was first being installed in the US there were complaints of then being "too blue". Anything much over 4000K is probably not a good idea for night illumination.

I don't know to which LEDs you are refering, but nowadays there are beautiful warm white options. Definitely not the ugly harsh blueish anymore.

[Zero999]

A big problem I can see is if the LEDs used are of inappropriate color temperature. I recall when LED street lighting was first being installed in the US there were complaints of then being "too blue". Anything much over 4000K is probably not a good idea for night illumination.

I suppose a good reason for higher colour temperature at night is the response of the dark adapted eye shifts to shorter wavelengths, so it's more efficient.

[rdl]

I was in Home Depot the other day and saw some Philips LED "bulbs" that were adjustable to 3 different color temperatures. I didn't look close, so I don't know how it was implemented.

There are a number of reasons why bluer colors are bad for lighting at night. I recall a couple of studies that were done, or maybe just app note type writings from LED manufacturers, which recommended something like 3500-4500K or thereabouts.

[Zero999]

I was in Home Depot the other day and saw some Philips LED "bulbs" that were adjustable to 3 different color temperatures. I didn't look close, so I don't know how it was implemented.

There are a number of reasons why bluer colors are bad for lighting at night. I recall a couple of studies that were done, or maybe just app note type writings from LED manufacturers, which recommended something like 3500-4500K or thereabouts.

Why?

I suppose shorter wavelengths may cause more glare and it's true it can cause problems with sleeping.

I haven't had any problems with the LED lighting in my street. I sleep in the back room and have some dark curtains so my room is very dark at night, even if it's light outside.

[b_force]

I was in Home Depot the other day and saw some Philips LED "bulbs" that were adjustable to 3 different color temperatures. I didn't look close, so I don't know how it was implemented.

There are a number of reasons why bluer colors are bad for lighting at night. I recall a couple of studies that were done, or maybe just app note type writings from LED manufacturers, which recommended something like 3500-4500K or thereabouts.

Some studies suggest that blue light keeps you awake a little more.
Which is actually a good thing on the road.

Although, it's still debatable.

[rdl]

It's not that it keeps you awake a little more, but that it disrupts your body's natural circadian rhythm.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/blue-light-has-a-dark-side

It also temporarily destroys your night vision. That's probably not good when driving at night, though looking inside many of the newer automobiles, which are often lit up like a carnival when it's dark outside, I guess the auto interior designers have never heard of this.

[klunkerbus]

I know the LED streetlights here aren't bluish at all.  I was expecting that, but they're somewhere between natural and warm.  Quite bright, too.  IIRC, I remember seeing seven emitters on each one. 

It'll be interesting to see how they hold up.  If they're anything like the LED stoplights, they'll turn into quite a maintenance hassle too or streets will just slowly get darker and darker as emitters burn out.