Author Topic: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer  (Read 20166 times)

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Online vk6zgo

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #100 on: August 17, 2023, 12:48:07 pm »
But not Linus' and Yvonne's life. That's a whole different scale by itself, you've made my point for me. These lump sum amounts go fast, especially if you have the mindset that it's an unbelievable amount.
That's because it is. Even if you blow 100k$ a month, 60M$ will last 50 years, ignoring any interest which can be made. Even at 2%/year you can be blowing 100K$/month forever, as it will bring you 1.2M$ a year in capital gains.

You hear about huge lotto winners becoming broke within like 5 years or something.
https://www.google.com/search?q=lotto+winner+who+blew+it+all

It would be seriously hard work to blow all that much money.

If you bought houses, they would still be there, as would a Lamborghini or a Rolls Royce.
All of them are assets you could sell & if you were a Lotto winner, still be far better off than you were prior to the win.
Of course, if it went on booze, or up your nose, I guess that could do it.

I'm too old for fancy cars, drugs, yachts or Mistresses, but I've always fancied a Money Bin like Scrooge McDuck.
I suppose for a lousy $100,000000 or so, I could make do with a Money Garden Shed"! ;D
 

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #101 on: August 17, 2023, 01:25:53 pm »
GN also has a tendency to set high bars for themselves and everybody else and seem to be willing to burn everything below that bar to the ground. Per example: they burn LTT for not reshooting sections of a video when the host makes an error or misspeaks. Is overlaying a not as good as reshooting? Obviously not. But should Linus lick Steves boot to appologise? Erh, no.

Agreed. LTT has unfortunately bought into the drama with the huge new apology tour from every layer of management, even halting videos.
They also bought in to the whole 8K RED camera massive production value thing. Nothing I've ever seen them do warrants anything remotely close to this.
Just have fun making videos, try and get them right, and an overlay correction of voice over is fine if needed.
The example of the graphics cards metric chart is something you have to get absolutely right though, as those are screen shoted and shared everywhere, it's the money shot of the review videos.
Mis-speaks here and there, nah, just overlay it.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #102 on: August 17, 2023, 02:29:12 pm »
Just have fun making videos, try and get them right, and an overlay correction of voice over is fine if needed.
The example of the graphics cards metric chart is something you have to get absolutely right though, as those are screen shoted and shared everywhere, it's the money shot of the review videos.
Mis-speaks here and there, nah, just overlay it.
It isn't fine to just use an overlay correction if it's a clusterfuck type of an error (LTT made plenty of those lately) and makes a hardware review video fundamentally misleading.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #103 on: August 17, 2023, 09:38:03 pm »
I get the impression that LTT is a very "blokey" high pressure nerd environment (no surprise?), and she seems to be completely incompatible with that environment?
Perhaps there was some resentment by the other nerdy employees that she was hired without the required nerd skills?
Are there any other presenters that don't have the nerd chops? Maybe that's why she was quickly shunted from that to handling the social media account?
Not excusing any of the serious sexual harassment claims of course, but apart from that it seems like a non-compatibility thing I've seen countless times.

Totally does seem that way.
I took about 2 seconds considering whether or not I'd want to work there when I saw their local EE postings, hell no, it looks like a startup level environment. Lots of time pressure, stress, unpaid overtime, lower pay, etc. Fit for some people but not me.

Finally, regarding the non-monetization of their video I'm gonna leave this here...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/linus-sebastion-turned-down-$100m-offer/?action=dlattach;attach=1853353;image

That is his desk, the stuff is always on there. Would you spend 30mins cleaning up just to put the stuff back the next shoot?
TBH don't really care if either one monetizes the video or not.
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Online Bud

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #104 on: August 17, 2023, 10:11:17 pm »
Nothing burger. I though the sky was falling when this thread exploded.
The channel name is "Linus Tech Tips" . Can anyone remember last time when Linus gave you a tech tip?
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #105 on: August 17, 2023, 11:16:04 pm »
Can you remember the last time Microsoft wrote some micro software?

Blimey, Bud - you're scraping the barrel with that one.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #106 on: August 17, 2023, 11:30:48 pm »
Nothing burger. I though the sky was falling when this thread exploded.
The channel name is "Linus Tech Tips" . Can anyone remember last time when Linus gave you a tech tip?

I think thats more in the techquickie channel now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Media_Group#List_of_YouTube_channels
But yes there are definitely tips in a few of the main channel videos.
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Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #107 on: August 17, 2023, 11:34:09 pm »
Nothing burger. I though the sky was falling when this thread exploded.
The channel name is "Linus Tech Tips" . Can anyone remember last time when Linus gave you a tech tip?

Ironically I just released a Tech Tip video this morning  ;D
 

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #108 on: August 17, 2023, 11:47:59 pm »
I think thats more in the techquickie channel now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Media_Group#List_of_YouTube_channels
But yes there are definitely tips in a few of the main channel videos.

Yes, it's not uncommon for channels to branch off like this and improve focus on the main channel when they get bigger. Thunderf00t is another channel that did it. I've kinda done it with my 2nd channel.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #109 on: August 18, 2023, 02:51:04 am »
Quite the cluster**** this. When something is so emotionally charged like these two, it is best to look from a distance.

For one side, Gamers Nexus seemed to be quite stable in views and subscriptions and, according to Social Blade, the last week saw quite a dramatic increase in subs, which could be cast as a shadow on their motivation. Besides, I think he was butthurt with the comment against his channel regarding re-using data and decided to unleash the dogs, including appealing to emotionally charged terms such as disonhest, etc.

On the other hand, Linus' emotional and deflecting reply forum post to the first video put gasoline to the fire - especially in the light of so many receipts brought by Gamers Nexus. The follow up PR-pasteurized video does some damage control, but it indeed looks forced at times. Besides, by their own team's admission they have been rushing and slacking on production and quality of tests.

All in all, two kids fighting in the playground. One seems to have better reasons than the other to be in the fight, but the emotions will still make me watch from a distance. Fortunately the influence this brouhaha will have in my life is close to nil. I will still keep watching, though.  :popcorn:
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Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #110 on: August 18, 2023, 03:07:40 am »
For one side, Gamers Nexus seemed to be quite stable in views and subscriptions and, according to Social Blade, the last week saw quite a dramatic increase in subs, which could be cast as a shadow on their motivation. Besides, I think he was butthurt with the comment against his channel regarding re-using data

I don't get this, what's wrong with reusing data if it's still valid and you can verify it's the same test procedure?  :-//
 

Offline Shonky

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #111 on: August 18, 2023, 03:34:46 am »
I don't get this, what's wrong with reusing data if it's still valid and you can verify it's the same test procedure?  :-//
Steve/GN loves a good drama and then getting full effect from it. e.g. the PSU thing and other stories.
 

Offline bw2341

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #112 on: August 18, 2023, 05:09:41 am »
I don't get this, what's wrong with reusing data if it's still valid and you can verify it's the same test procedure?  :-//

I don't follow this area closely so I may be wrong...

The GPU makers have a tight grip on the reviewers that receive cards early. They are required to use the supplied drivers and specific configurations with specific games to generate the performance numbers that the GPU companies expect.

To set themselves apart, reviewers try to test with additional configurations and additional games (new and old) to generate useful comparisons. They compare these results with higher and lower grade cards and the cards from the other GPU company. They also compare historically with older generation GPUs.

The problem is that there are significant changes in performance on every GPU whenever the drivers are updated. If you compare the numbers from the latest card to six-month old results from an older card, you might be making an unfair comparison. The older cards are likely to be better performing now on the new drivers.

This inflates the apparent improvement of the new cards, which is exactly what the GPU makers want. Early access to cards is tightly time constrained so that reviewers are unable to do extensive testing before the embargo date.

LTT Labs' initiative is trying to quickly automate testing on multiple systems in parallel so that they can deliver meaningful comparisons to older GPUs in the few days of testing possible before the embargo date of a new GPU.
 
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Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #113 on: August 18, 2023, 06:31:31 am »
That is his desk, the stuff is always on there. Would you spend 30mins cleaning up just to put the stuff back the next shoot?
TBH don't really care if either one monetizes the video or not.

Give me a break. You sound like my daughter. Clean up my room? That's gonna take hhoouuuuuurrssss!!! It takes one minute and a small box to dump it in.

I don't get this, what's wrong with reusing data if it's still valid and you can verify it's the same test procedure?  :-//
I don't follow this area closely so I may be wrong...

Well put. LTT made a bit of a stink that they would retest everything all the time and then Steve "caught" them reusing data. But it were two cards that launched within days and that were tested together. So, more drama over nothing.

EDIT: and by well put I don't mean the part about you being perhaps wrong but just to say it was a good recap  8)
 

Offline hans

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #114 on: August 18, 2023, 07:23:03 am »
For one side, Gamers Nexus seemed to be quite stable in views and subscriptions and, according to Social Blade, the last week saw quite a dramatic increase in subs, which could be cast as a shadow on their motivation. Besides, I think he was butthurt with the comment against his channel regarding re-using data

I don't get this, what's wrong with reusing data if it's still valid and you can verify it's the same test procedure?  :-//

New games and cards appear. Need new drivers and game patches to work properly. So the tests with older versions could be invalid. Some games are heavily patched, such as Microsoft Flight Simulator, which saw dramatic (100%+) increases in performance over its lifespan, but also erratic behaviour (poor performance only fixed by a system reinstall).

I honestly believe its not easy to properly benchmark. Steve from HardwareUnboxed said its not rocket science, but it is very tedious.

LTT wants to boast about automations, but then still is able to post wrong benchmark data. Some of the benchmark numbers swapped (e.g. Intel Arc A750) could be with raytracing on or off, which also has dramatic increases.
The other components from GN I don't agree with at its core. Forcing an experiment outcome is IMO still a wrong approach to testing. Because that's the vibe I got from their video. Each test should be ran under the same conditions.
E.g. a 300% increase between 4090 en 3090 is dramatic, but we have seen HardwareUnboxed test 8GB cards on high resolutions, and they show greater-than-expected performance retardation because of VRAM limits. Now VRAM limits cant be at fault in the 4090 benchmark (as a 3090 en 4090 both have 24GB VRAM), so that point is still valid.
But for other cards.. I don't necessarily agree. The seemed to have been pointing to different charts for their GTX1060 example ("Max settings" vs "Ultra + Vulkan"). GN forced a conclusion "none of the other cards really moved" => Yes, that could be because Ultra is probably Max settings, BUT choosing between DirectX(industry standard/default) or Vulkan rendering could favour manfacturer A,B or C more.

I think every reviewer would do benefit if they will write down the project and test run on each chart.

And then there is the issue the part variance is huge: https://youtu.be/dGbW7orZS-A
TLDR. 13x AMD Ryzen 7600 tested. CB23 MT runs in range 13.6k-14.4k. Clocks 4825MHz - 5075MHz. Load temperatures 79C - 88C. Load power 112W - 126W. Game FPS 60 to 86(!). FPS/W: 2.89 to 4.26
That latter has a 41% improvement on the same hardware bill of materials.

Representing a tight cluster of measurement data based on just 1 (or even a handful) CPU or GPU under test is also misleading. That's what GN advertizes in all their charts.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 07:28:39 am by hans »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #115 on: August 18, 2023, 07:43:57 am »
The other components from GN I don't agree with at its core. Forcing an experiment outcome is IMO still a wrong approach to testing. Because that's the vibe I got from their video.
And I did not. It's like you don't agree with a straw man (vibe) you created in your head but blame GN. Double checking suspicious test results is not forcing experiment outcome at all. Even medical labs with much more standartized test procedures often redo analyses that had out of ordinary results.
Quote
TLDR. 13x AMD Ryzen 7600 tested. CB23 MT runs in range 13.6k-14.4k. Clocks 4825MHz - 5075MHz. Load temperatures 79C - 88C. Load power 112W - 126W. Game FPS 60 to 86(!). FPS/W: 2.89 to 4.26
That latter has a 41% improvement on the same hardware bill of materials.
That is not FPS but power consumption in W with power limits disabled. Not to say FPS/W is not your usual benchmark metric. Actual performance difference between samples will be a few %. LMG let slip GPU test results which were like 2.5 times off.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 08:14:44 am by wraper »
 

Offline hans

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #116 on: August 18, 2023, 08:15:48 am »
Is there any reason or problem to make a discussion personal again? If there is, please let me know, otherwise it's not so cool.

Vibe is my poor and imprecise choice of wording. I don't have anything specifically towards any channel. But I do think that the stated demands is striving towards an utopia of predictability and tight clustering of data. If CPU performance can vary by e.g. 5% then it is questionable how representable any review data is without testing dozens of units. All these tests are samplesize N=1.

Outliers can be removed or retested, or maybe a retest a complete chart while you're at it (e.g. the 4090 might not be an outlier, but all other cards were). But picking bad data only on outliers is still a biased by expected results (its called survivorship bias). The underlying issues all hinge around failed qualifications of test/part conditions under test. A bad cooler mount, mixed data with different quality settings or not checking if a CPU is thermal throttling. But potentially also other mistakes, such as parallelising tests with identical (bill of materials) test benches.

So I think the critics of GN is somewhat simplified. Now granted, their general statement is still valid, and GN is perhaps the better of all channels out there as they do show some qualification of parts (e.g. clocks) before performance data. HUB does that for VRAM usage in certain game tests.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 05:28:48 pm by hans »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #117 on: August 18, 2023, 09:17:12 am »
Outliers can be removed or retested, or maybe a retest a complete chart while you're at it (e.g. the 4090 might not be an outlier, but all other cards were). But picking bad data only on outliers is still a biased by expected results. The underlying issues all hinge around failed qualifications of test/part conditions under test. A bad cooler mount, mixed data with different quality settings or not checking if a CPU is thermal throttling. But potentially also other mistakes, such as parallelising tests with identical (bill of materials) test benches.
The best is doing multiple rounds of tests by switching samples of say GPUs on a test stand on each round yet again and verifying settings each time. Not just setting it up once and running multiple times in the same possibly wrong configuration. However it would require much more time and effort, so double checking suspicious results is a bare minimum of due diligence.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 09:19:19 am by wraper »
 

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #118 on: August 18, 2023, 09:34:39 am »
I can't help but think the TLDR from this is that Linus overreacted and dug his own hole here.
First mistake was taking the GN bait. He should have just Tweeted "Yeah, we'll do better" or some such and left it at that.
As for the former employee Tweet storm, it was clearly oportunistically timed to hammer home the pile-on, as it was 2+ years ago, and most of the stuff is just griping about a job she didn't like.
If he hadn't reacted to the GN thing it wouldn't have blown up, and it's likely the former employee tweet storm wouldn't have happened.
Next mistake was the apology tour video. Although it was a texbook fine corporate response video, and was genuine, again, it was not needed and won abolsutely no one back and it just drives the media frenzy more. As does halting video production.
 

Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #119 on: August 18, 2023, 09:39:35 am »
Kinda disagree. Some of the criticism is valid. They might a well have a look at it. And if they can afford to shut down for a week that would probably work better than asking your already overtasked workforce to cobble something together in between everything else.

Never waste a good crisis ;-)
 

Offline Shonky

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #120 on: August 18, 2023, 09:46:02 am »
The 24/7 stream of old episodes they are running is getting a lot of down votes. Last I looked it was about 50:50.

Not sure if or how that affects "the algorithm" but they might have been better off just laying low for a week and then coming back with a proper plan. Socialblade reports a (edit) now 0.2M drop in subscribers. I guess that's plus or minus 0.1M but it's there.

This is entirely a pile on that probably wouldn't have blown up without much of the LTT response. GN and his holier than thou attitude irks me though. The fact he started picking on them for using on screen corrections I thought was pretty lame.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 09:54:49 am by Shonky »
 

Offline Microdoser

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #121 on: August 18, 2023, 09:46:35 am »
I haven't watched LTT for years now. I found their videos shifted over my personal line from 'informative fun, by the way we have some merch over there' to 'we're trying to get you to spend as much money on our merch as possible and that is our main goal'. They seemed partisan, instead of impartial, in their reviews, and that's another line for me. There has also been a gradual development of a dislike for Linus on a personal level, he just seems like the sort of boss that would shout at you for either something that they messed up or for not keeping up with unreasonable time constraints on a job that could otherwise have been easy. I've had that sort of boss in the past, and when I see their traits in another person, I don't like them.
 
As time goes on, my opinion is reinforced instead of being shown to be wrong.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 09:52:24 am by Microdoser »
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #122 on: August 18, 2023, 10:54:31 am »
I can't help but think the TLDR from this is that Linus overreacted and dug his own hole here.
Precisely. The emotional reaction is something that would have never passed the BS test on a board of peers. The fact it happened gives the impression there is indeed a top dog that deals most (or all) the cards and its minions that are either too afraid, too lenient or simply disengaged. In these times that's where a good PR professional comes in and tames these emotional outbursts.

First mistake was taking the GN bait. He should have just Tweeted "Yeah, we'll do better" or some such and left it at that.
This attitude and response was done in the past, but this time I suspect the cooler block auction/sell and the claims of dishonesty really wound up Linus this time. Of course his first response was disastrous.

As for the former employee Tweet storm, it was clearly oportunistically timed to hammer home the pile-on, as it was 2+ years ago, and most of the stuff is just griping about a job she didn't like.
Indeed. She is very young and really did not figure out the entire ramifications of her actions. These pile ups rarely work in favour of the person doing the piling. 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2023, 10:48:14 am by rsjsouza »
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #123 on: August 18, 2023, 11:00:57 am »
The 24/7 stream of old episodes they are running is getting a lot of down votes. Last I looked it was about 50:50.
At this point they better buckle up and weather the storm... It is still too fresh in people's minds.
 
GN and his holier than thou attitude irks me though. The fact he started picking on them for using on screen corrections I thought was pretty lame.
Indeed the attitude is an emotional (but tamed) reaction to the spark that ignited this whole thing. And the rant about screen corrections is quite odd. Sure, a massive production team could re-shoot things but everybody does corrections in the Youtube tech space. However, Linus' channel is big enough that they can probably replace a video or two with a new one without having to re-upload the entire thing.
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Offline Microdoser

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Re: Linus Sebastion Turned Down $100M Offer
« Reply #124 on: August 18, 2023, 11:20:56 am »
The 24/7 stream of old episodes they are running is getting a lot of down votes. Last I looked it was about 50:50.
At this point they better buckle up and weather the storm... It is still too fresh in people's minds.
 
GN and his holier than thou attitude irks me though. The fact he started picking on them for using on screen corrections I thought was pretty lame.
Indeed the attitude is an emotional (but tamed) reaction to the spark that ignited this whole thing. And the rant about screen corrections is quite odd. Sure, a massive production team could re-shoot things but everybody does corrections in the Youtube tech space. However, Linus' channel is big enough that they can probably replace a video or two with a new one without having to re-upload the entire thing.

I sometimes work in video to help out a small production company. It is the rare shoot where we don't have to do pickups (reshoot shots or shoot missing shots) once editing has started because someone spotted an error or missed shot. It is inconceivable that we would not do them simply due to budget constraints, which is the reason LTT gave. Sometimes you just have to suck it up, especially if the error is your fault. If you are a small YouTube channel, it's understandable you might just post the odd correction, but for a company as large as LTT it's a bad sign that they are publicly saying that they are accepting testing errors rather than test properly or reshoot a shot because they don't want to spend the money it would take to do things properly.
 
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