Author Topic: LIVE: Launching astronauts from US soil to ISS for first time in last 9 years  (Read 2005 times)

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Online Shock

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The Space Shuttle is 70s tech rolled out into the 80s for specific tasks. It's not like they said hey lets make this complicated as we can, back then everything needed a button, switch or knob. 135 missions according to NASA.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 01:09:27 am by Shock »
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Online Mr. Scram

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The Space Shuttle is 70s tech rolled out into the 80s for specific tasks. It's not like they said hey lets make this complicated as we can, back then everything needed a button, switch or knob. 135 missions according to NASA.
It wasn't just a product of its age. It was as much a political vehicle as it was a functional one and it shows.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2011/07/06/193194/was-the-space-shuttle-a-mistake/
 

Online hendorog

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I read somewhere that the concept for the look of the suits was done by a Hollywood costume designer.

Starliner has a much more traditional interior design than the Dragon but both are intended to be flown completely automated, so the controls are somewhat redundant anyway.

Found an article on the controls:
https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/30/21275753/nasa-spacex-astronauts-fly-crew-dragon-touchscreen-controls

I'm still puzzled on how they are going to operate those touch screens in high-G (emergency) situations. Fighter jets typically have force sensor sticks for which you don't need to lift or move your arm at all.

I was thinking the same thing. It's such an obvious problem with touchscreens that they must have mitigated it somehow.
 

Offline eti

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It's silly, but then, society is brainwashed because everyone's convinced themselves that touch screens HAVE to be on EVERYTHING, and because they're everywhere else too...  :palm: :palm:

I can hear this fictional narrator in my head, saying "But this is the science fiction we'd dreamed of YEARS ago, and we hoped one day it would happen - we've MADE it happen, it HAS to happen, and everything HAS to be touch screen because it was our dream" kinda narrative - like it's SO forced and contrived - they HAVE to have touch screen EVERYTHING "just because..." and because some kids had a sci fi fantasy 50 years ago, then those kids grew up, and forced their fantasy to become reality "JUST BECAUSE"

People are idiots, didn't you realise?  ;D

It's likely because Mr Musk is on the scene, and has forced giant iPad-esque touch panels into Teslas... WHY? Who knows! Because it's ... "futuristic" and looks "kewl" - and along with idiotic gullwing doors that serve no purpose except to SCREEEAAAAAAM "FUTURE!!!! FUTURISTIC!!!"  I bet you the cognitive load with those Tesla touch panels is AWFUL! When you're driving a car, you want a PHYSICAL CONTROL - buttons don't freeze and crash, software does!

Ain't NO WAY, ever, these kiddy toy cars are "the foooootcha!" OR taking over anything, it's all a pipe dream from sci fi nerds and Tesla cheerleaders. NO WAY.
Are you trying to single handedly prove people are idiots?  :-DD

No, that would be a waste of energy and time; they do just fine proving it all on their own.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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No, that would be a waste of energy and time; they do just fine proving it all on their own.
Too late, you already did. ;)
 

Offline ChunkyPastaSauce

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Also do you think this is more practical than 3 touchscreens and a few buttons? If it does the job well, put something that takes minimum space and weight which are quite limited resources in space capsule.



Better comparison would be another capsule for ISS missions, since the functionality is about the same. The obvious one being Soyuz capsule, the control dash area happens to be about the same size and looks more realistic to condense.

Soyuz


 

Offline wraper

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Offline jogri

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I read somewhere that the concept for the look of the suits was done by a Hollywood costume designer.

Starliner has a much more traditional interior design than the Dragon but both are intended to be flown completely automated, so the controls are somewhat redundant anyway.

Found an article on the controls:
https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/30/21275753/nasa-spacex-astronauts-fly-crew-dragon-touchscreen-controls

I'm still puzzled on how they are going to operate those touch screens in high-G (emergency) situations. Fighter jets typically have force sensor sticks for which you don't need to lift or move your arm at all.

What exactly is an high-G manoeuvre for you? If i recall correctly the crew is suspected to ~2.5G shortly before Max-Q, and right now you have to fighter pilots sitting in the capsule, they probably won't bat an eye (okay, that's going to change with regular missions). They would probably see ~6-7 G on a inflight abort at Max-Q (someone did the math for the ground abort and calculated 3.5G for that, plus the ~2.5G during normal flight), but it would require superhuman reactions to control the capsule anyway, so it is done by the flight computer ->no interactions required.
The only situation where they could be required to use the touchscreens at high-G would be during reentry, but if the capsule is similar to the Souyz they would experience under 4G (and i am not sure if this G-number is reached while breaking or if it is the negative G they would feel when the chutes deployed).

It's not like the old Gemini/Mercury systems that reached 7G on both stages, you probably just had to pray that the rest of the rocket would function if something broke during launch.
 

Online nctnico

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IIRC one of the Gemini missions got a stuck manoeuvring thruster putting the space craft into a wild spin. Current technology is likely much better but things still can go wrong.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online dr.diesel

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Anybody know what OS is running on the Dragon touchscreens?

SpaceX uses a lot of Linux from what I've heard, but the bottom menu row does look a bit custom Winish.   :horse:

Offline Lord of nothing

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Well I guess the use some highly customised  system who will reset them self in the case of a OS Crash.
Made in Japan, destroyed in Sulz im Wienerwald.
 

Offline tom66

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If SpaceX were using Windows on those systems I'd be shocked.  It's almost certainly a custom Linux or possibly an RTOS for reliability if qualifying Linux was seen as too difficult.
 

Online nctnico

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Well I guess the use some highly customised  system who will reset them self in the case of a OS Crash.
I doubt they run Linux and I doubt they run an OS they wrote from scratch. More likely it is a mission critical OS; probably very similar to what Tesla is using in their cars.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online dr.diesel

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what Tesla is using in their cars.

Pretty sure the cars run Linux.

Online SiliconWizard

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Tesla is using a custom Linux-based OS, while a few other manufacturers use QNX.

AFAIK, SpaceX also uses a custom Linux-based OS. I don't know if there are any major differences between the two, like for instance the kernel version and set of patches.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-is-under-your-hood/
https://www.rankred.com/what-hardware-software-does-spacex-use-to-power-its-rockets/
 
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Online rdl

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Docking is complete. Commander Chris Cassidy looks overworked getting ready to open the hatch. I bet he's looking forward to having some help onboard.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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I missed the docking sequence itself, I'll have to see that on a replay.

Amazing job anyway. :-+

 

Offline tom66

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Well I guess the use some highly customised  system who will reset them self in the case of a OS Crash.
I doubt they run Linux and I doubt they run an OS they wrote from scratch. More likely it is a mission critical OS; probably very similar to what Tesla is using in their cars.

Tesla runs Linux in their cars for their touchscreen and instrument cluster (specifically, at least in the original Model S, it was a heavily stripped Ubuntu distribution.)
Not sure about the ECUs but likely an RTOS or baremetal, depends on what the ECU controls.
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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sry I was busy I just saw them docking what did the do now?
Are the out of the Aircraft?
Made in Japan, destroyed in Sulz im Wienerwald.
 

Offline jogri

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Yeah, they entered the ISS about an hour ago
 

Online nctnico

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what Tesla is using in their cars.

Pretty sure the cars run Linux.
Probably for the infotainment system but it would surprise me if they run Linux on the computers which do the auto-pilot, safety features and engine control. That was what I was aiming at (to be clear).
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 06:56:12 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online dr.diesel

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Probably for the infotainment system but it would surprise me if they run Linux on the computers which do the auto-pilot, safety features and engine control. That was what I was aiming at (to be clear).

Auto Pilot is a really good question, would love to read more about that specifically. 

Online SiliconWizard

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what Tesla is using in their cars.

Pretty sure the cars run Linux.
Probably for the infotainment system but it would surprise me if they run Linux on the computers which do the auto-pilot, safety features and engine control. That was what I was aiming at (to be clear).

Yeah. But the OS question started with the question: "Anybody know what OS is running on the Dragon touchscreens?", so it was sort of obvious subsequent replies were dealing with that: the OS used for all the UI systems.

As for all the other subsystems, probably hundreds of them, sure most of them are unlikely to run on Linux. And I also doubt they all run on the same OS. There are probably baremetal subsystems, others on RTOSs, etc.
 

Online Shock

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For those who missed the docking rewind this stream.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM               >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
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Offline IDEngineer

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Found today that SpaceX writes their code in C++, their screens in JavaScript, the OS is Linux, and the platform is PowerPC. They do not use rad-hard components but instead shield at the modular level.
 
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