Living with Depression / Bipolar Disorder

[KF5OBS]

Ok, I know this is America, but I can't read this and not say something, I'm sorry, I care too much for your safety and for those around you, so please don't take this the wrong way.

I won't take it the wrong way, I'm German.

Why on earth do you have a gun or have access to a gun?

Because this is America. I own a .22 Walther P22, a .40 Glock 23 and a 7mm magnum rifle.

Please carefully consider removing all guns or access to guns from your life, for your own sake and for that of others.

I did. I gave my .22 to a Sheriff's Deputy friend and all my other firearms to an Airforce Pilot friend of mine who I trust to not give them back to me until I am stable.

[Halcyon]

Keep the self harm under control, it can be a bitch. Lost a brother in law to that.

Many people don't realise that self harm doesn't always equal an attempt at suicide. Many people use self harm (cutting etc...) as a means to cope and have absolutely no intention of killing themselves. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with asking someone what their intentions are.

[SL4P]

An interesting point raised..

Almost every time I talk to a 'professional', they ask if I have any thoughts of self-harm or hurting others.   I'm not the least bit interested in hurting myself, and the only person I'd 'slip the dagger' into would be my former business partner if I ever had the chance!

What worries me is leaving my life in the hands of others 'with my best interests in mind' as my physical situation drops away.
I'm Just looking for that bend in the tunnel... what a dumbass!

[VK3DRB]

The plethora of guns in the so-called "land of the free" is simply grotesque and criminal. There is no excuse for it.

Back onto the main subject...

I have no data to back me up but only experience in suggesting that in Australia a greater percentage of ham radio operators and electronic engineers (I am both) suffer from some form of mental illnesses or personality disorder than in the general population. Oddly enough, living in Texas for a while I found ham radio operators and engineers there more "normal" than those here.

Most people who suffer mental illness do so through no fault of their own. Some relatives suffer from mental illness (schizophrenia, bipolar and mild Aspergers). The one with schizophrenia was triggered by immense personal trauma. He manages it thought medication.

However a daughter of a good friend and former engineering colleague caused her own mental illness. She is an methamphetimine addict. She has robbed people, prostituted herself, mixed with criminal bikie gangs, and according to her parents probably has permanent brain damage. Ice is a serious plague in Australia. The government has taken a soft approach to it in my opinion.

There is an organisation here called https://www.beyondblue.org.au/. It is exemplary in helping people.

[SL4P]

There is an organisation here called https://www.beyondblue.org.au/. It is exemplary in helping people.

I agree that ice (meth) is being overtalked and underaddressed in Australia... There's no money in it for the responsible authorities - just more work.

However, I'd like to be corrected on my opinion of beyondblue - when I phoned  them 18 months ago, the first call hit an answering machine, and the second told me to ring 'lifeline', or 'men's help line'...

No wonder I'm pessimistic about available help.

[KF5OBS]

No wonder I'm pessimistic about available help.

Getting help is surprisingly difficult many of the times. Even the suicide hotlines and such are often staffed by non-professional volunteers with little to basic training. During severe down phases, if someone calls the cops, all they're gonna do - at least here in the US - is lock you up for 48 - 72 hours on a suicide hold without any actual help. I got to "enjoy" a 72 hour suicide hold last year and I talked maybe a total of 5 minutes to a doctor during that stay. And they only asked "How are you feeling? Do you wanna hurt yourself? Do you wanna hurt anybody else?" That's it, absolutely nothing useful. What people don't get is that when depressive people come forward and actually ask for help, they need help. Usually, coming forward and sharing with someone what we did (cutting, etc.) is tough enough. If the following experience is not a good one, we won't ask for help again.

[Mechanical Menace]

And they only asked "How are you feeling? Do you wanna hurt yourself? Do you wanna hurt anybody else?"

And of course you'd never lie if you were planning either :/

What people don't get is that when depressive people come forward and actually ask for help, they need help. Usually, coming forward and sharing with someone what we did (cutting, etc.) is tough enough.

And I think it's hard for people to realise how much harder than normally asking for help is. It's not like we don't know how... ridiculous it can sound ourselves.

[SL4P]

I was thinking about this more over the weekend. And the issue I'm seeing as the common 'solution' is just to to 'tell' you what to do.
Whereas. I get depressed and discouraged very quickly if I don't see 'small steps' in the right direction.
Simply saying 'try to get out' and come see me again in 3 weeks - works for about 3-4 days.
In my case, I think a bit of handholding, and incremental rewards (glimpsing the light at the end of the tunnel) would make recovery far more likely.

Currently I run about one week up, then two weeks down. Not really helping.

[SArepairman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1a5QQoHh60&feature=youtu.be

[calexanian]

I have no problem admitting that I took a .40 caliber handgun to my head last year. I only got through that because a friend was extremely aware of me being "off" in earlier text messages.

Ok, I know this is America, but I can't read this and not say something, I'm sorry, I care too much for your safety and for those around you, so please don't take this the wrong way.
Why on earth do you have a gun or have access to a gun?
Please carefully consider removing all guns or access to guns from your life, for your own sake and for that of others.

Dave, what you said needs to be said. I lost a friend a few years ago. He suffered from both Schizophrenia and Bipolar disorder. He was a very talented musician. Part of his condition was being a savant. Unfortunately this ultimately added to his isolation where he only felt comfortable performing on stage or around other musicians. Following a period where that stimulation was not as present as it should be he took his like with a rifle. His condition was understood by people around him, but what could we have done? locked him away? Made him feel even more trapped by his condition? Gun or not he would have done it anyways we later found out. Next thing would have been with pills. Never the less a tragedy. I will continue to own my guns though.

That being said.

For as progressive as our lets call it "Liberal" media is over here by way of the politically correctness we are subjected to, the question of why is mental health not addressed in our country always comes to the front of my mind. Is it so important that we not possible offend anybody that it cannot be discussed? The same goes for domestic violence and drugs. All we hear is the death toll. Not anybody addressing it and admitting that a significant portion of the population has some kind of mental health problem, or deep psychological trauma. We cant bring it up though because certain groups may be offended. They are the first one to point fingers when a troubled person drives their car through a crowded market or a busy sidewalk at society, but these finger pointers are the first ones to attack when you try to address that a specific person needs help. I could go on for hours about this broken system we have. My friend Dr Drew does regularly.

[calexanian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1a5QQoHh60&feature=youtu.be

Not to be an ass but not cool. My friend who killed himself as said above used lots of pot to try to take the edge off of his condition. In the end it was a fools errand.

[calexanian]

I think I hit one of my own nerves. We also have various conditions in my family. GAD on one side, OCD on the other, and my sibling has all the signs of bipolar, however they do not believe in addressing it. I saw the patterns and being the baby of the bunch I decided to get out in front of it and do something before the wave crashed on me, and I could feel it coming. For me it took mostly internal work. I had to come to terms with the person I thought I was and reconcile it with the person I thought I needed to be. I needed medication to get over my hump. I was suffering from the beginning stages of GAD. I was really getting freaked out about the concept of eternity. The fear that we might really have to deal with it. Everybody prays for life to go on after death, but do they really know what they are asking for? After the therapist talked me down out of that shit spiral and got me under control I realized that it does not matter and I am a good person surrounded by good people. To break it down in terms we can understand, if when I go and somebody hits the big MCLR in my mind, I will not be around to care or know any better. Reality most likely takes care of that little problem of having a consciousness that has to hang around looking at the same grains of sand for eternity. 

Sorry I got off topic here. I try to help out local NAMI organization. They promote awareness of mental illness concerns.

[zapta]

I was thinking about this more over the weekend. And the issue I'm seeing as the common 'solution' is just to to 'tell' you what to do.

... which brings to mind the ethereal Stop It sketch.



I don't think I can offer any help but you have my sympathy.

[EEVblog]

For as progressive as our lets call it "Liberal" media is over here by way of the politically correctness we are subjected to, the question of why is mental health not addressed in our country always comes to the front of my mind. Is it so important that we not possible offend anybody that it cannot be discussed?

Mental health was a huge key election promise in a recent federal election here, almost to the point of being the most important election topic. 

[SL4P]

I'll raise another factor here, which is a key to my depressive moments... fear.

I've had a few life experiences - most of the great, but always tried to live for the benefit of those around me in the 'hope' the appropriate reward would come my way if it was due...  I'm an idiot.

After being screwed over too many times I'm out of options now, and unable fight back - living in fear of situations which might take me down further.  Health, finances, everything is pretty close to rock bottom.

[BradC]

I've had a few life experiences - most of the great, but always tried to live for the benefit of those around me in the 'hope' the appropriate reward would come my way if it was due...  I'm an idiot.

I can relate to that. Spent the 1st 40 years of my life with the assumption that I had to make everyone like me. That meant I spent an inordinate amount of time prioritizing other people over myself and my family, very nearly resulting in the breakdown of my marriage.
The biggest revelation for me was that I am actually different than most, and I don't get a lot of simple social cues that come naturally to others. Conversely I have skills and abilities that turn out to be pretty highly valued that I've spent 40 years downplaying because more people "liked" me when they felt I was inferior to them. I now have a lot fewer friends, but those that stuck around turned out to be the sort of friends that help you movie bodies. I have more time for my family, and I actually don't stress about whether people like me or not. Real friends don't actually take advantage of you.

Now it has taken nearly 5 years of regular sessions with a psychologist, and 4 years on anti-depressants (came off in feb-mar) to get to where I can actually function well again, but the end result is on the whole each day has been better than the last. Contrast that to 2010 where I'd reached the end of my rope and just wanted out and things are generally much better.

Everyone is different, and every situation is generally completely unique, but I've discovered a few little things that have helped me and can be pretty generally applicable.
- I'm different and that's actually ok.
- Don't worry about things you have no control over. I can worry about and fix my car, but I can't do anything about what the ATO is likely to say in this years assessment.
- Everybody has bad days. I've recently had to re-learn this as the medication generally stopped me having bad days. It also stopped me having good days, generally leaving me in a permanent state of "meh".
- People (and friends) are generally a pretty selfish bunch. Keep the ones that aren't and throw the rest back in the lake. Success is not measured by the number of friends you have (despite what bookface would have you believe).
- Don't measure yourself against anyone else. We all have different scales.
- Social networks are generally incredibly damaging to the self-esteem of most sane people (I've only witnessed this second hand as I refuse to play that game. I'm still friends with the school friends I want to keep in contact with).
- Alcohol will make you feel much worse both short and long term. I still love my Scotch, but it's no longer a refuge.

Nothing I can say will help any of you other than as another voice to say "it affects me too".

[SL4P]

100% on all those points.
I just left it a bit late!
Still a dumbass optimist tho'

[jay]

KF50BS, I think it's great that you're willing to talk about this things publicly. These things are not uncommon, but still a lot of people have all sorts of misconceptions about these things.

[SL4P]

you'll appreciate this...

I'm just as likely to be the guy with the V, happy in the knowledge no-one will see my fingers, but others that can't see 'the big picture' make simple incorrect assumptions!

[KF5OBS]

I thought I'd bump this thread and give an update. When I originally started this thread, I thought I kinda hit my rock bottom and it could only move forward from there. Little did I expect me to be found blood covered in the pouring rain in front of my house sometime mid June. So that's when I thought "now this MUST be rock bottom!" Little did I expect that on my birthday, June 29th, things would go so drastically  out of hand that I don't even want to describe it. What followed was one night in the County Jail in "protective custody" and a 7 day government paid trip to the State Hospital. Great birthday, talk about a wake-up call.

Since then I have debated going back to Germany. On one side I think having friends and family may be beneficial, on the other I am uncertain if this may be just running away from the problem. For starters, my primary Boss (I'm an independent contractor) has relocated me to Oklahoma, where the company's headquarters are. A change of venue was likely needed. He's also paying for a Psychiatrist twice a week. And just working in an actual office on a 9:00 - 17:00 type schedule instead of being at home basically 24/7 and sleeping / working whenever desired is helping quite a bit, too.

Has anyone else have to share any recovery stories / suggestions?

[SL4P]

I's great to hear that you're confronting it rather than running way from your demons.
It may have been a harsh slap in the lockup, but it didn't kill you - so must be a light shining in the right direction!  Your dialogue certainly says you are looking outward, rather than being too reflective.

My doctor - seeing him again tonight - has made an initial assessment of a hyperthymic personality, but in trying to find a therapist for me - says  they're hard to find!

Maybe more info tomorrow... Good luck on your journey.
Take care, but it sounds you're heading in the right direction emotionally.

[zapta]

Has anyone else have to share any recovery stories / suggestions?

Not personally but this is a tech/gadget related blogger that I follow and once in a while he tells about his struggle with depression. He is married with at least one kid and an ex Microsoft employee.

[SL4P]

I add a reason I believe a lot of people with an 'engineer personality' have problems...
'We're solving problems that other people don't even know they have!'

[Richard Crowley]

Has anyone else have to share any recovery stories / suggestions?

http://www.amazon.com/Depression-The-Way-Neil-Nedley/dp/0966197941

I have met the author and he is a very smart and caring person.  Not your typical physician.
I believe he operates a depression clinic in the midwest somewhere.

[German_EE]

Good to see that you're still around, I was beginning to worry. Working in an office instead of by yourself will help and having a boss who understands and is willing to pay for a Psychiatrist is amazing so hats off to him 

If I were you I would stay in OK for now. The culture shock of moving from the USA to Germany plus the hassle of dealing with the German health system is the last thing you need right now.