EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: XOIIO on July 05, 2014, 05:54:35 pm
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These bolts must be made of adamantium then silver plated to warrant this price for 36 of them.
I think I'll just drive down the hardware store, thanks... http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MDC-190066-Hex-Head-Bolt-2-Large-Tapped-Silver-Plated-Package-of-36-Unused-/261524640571 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MDC-190066-Hex-Head-Bolt-2-Large-Tapped-Silver-Plated-Package-of-36-Unused-/261524640571)
Best part is for that much, it's still practically two weeks max shipping time.
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what a hell are those screw was intended for? silver plated?
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what a hell are those screw was intended for? silver plated?
No kidding. They don't look silver plated to me, but who knows :-//
edit: Hah, even better, just buy them new. http://mdcvacuum.com/DisplayPart.aspx?d=MDC&p=190066 (http://mdcvacuum.com/DisplayPart.aspx?d=MDC&p=190066)
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I know nothing about the seller and I've not even looked at the link. If the conversation were to avoid specific ebayers and we were to move on to the more general topic of things being sold for way over market value, then suspicious me would suspect money laundering. Again I've not even looked at the link so I'm not accusing anybody of wrongdoing (god forbid it's all legit and an honest individual or business gets a bad reputation).
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I know nothing about the seller and I've not even looked at the link. If the conversation were to avoid specific ebayers and we were to move on to the more general topic of things being sold for way over market value, then suspicious me would suspect money laundering. Again I've not even looked at the link so I'm not accusing anybody of wrongdoing (god forbid it's all legit and an honest individual or business gets a bad reputation).
It's just a ridiculous price on some bolts, he's actually selling them right around market value, but these are old and in bad shape, and you can get new ones instead.
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what a hell are those screw was intended for? silver plated?
It probably is Cadmium plating. Nasty stuff.
It turns out they are actually silver plated parts for a vacuum pump:
http://mdcvacuum.com/DisplayPart.aspx?d=MDC&p=190066 (http://mdcvacuum.com/DisplayPart.aspx?d=MDC&p=190066)
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It's just a ridiculous price on some bolts, he's actually selling them right around market value, but these are old and in bad shape, and you can get new ones instead.
It probably is Cadmium plating. Nasty stuff.
It turns out they are actually silver plated parts for a vacuum pump:
http://mdcvacuum.com/DisplayPart.aspx?d=MDC&p=190066 (http://mdcvacuum.com/DisplayPart.aspx?d=MDC&p=190066)
Gentlemen, you may be correct, however, my answer is much more interesting and that's what counts.
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more than likely they are sold out
ebay sellers put the prices up so high people wont buy them
then when they come in stock again the lower the price back down
it saves the fees of making a new advert.
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more than likely they are sold out
ebay sellers put the prices up so high people wont buy them
then when they come in stock again the lower the price back down
it saves the fees of making a new advert.
Well, says 3 available, but I've seen amazon sellers do this with things that cost maybe $30, being listed at $400.
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Guys, actually such a a price is pretty common for special bolts. you can't use just "some" bolts in every application. there are many areas where you need special material or coating, and those bolts are such a special ones ;)
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It's to stop the (probably very nice) steel bolts from cold welding with the (probably very nice) tapped steel flange in situations where you can't use a conventional lubricant. The same rig might use something like http://www.lesker.com/newweb/flanges/hardware_cf_gaskets.cfm?pgid=ofhc (http://www.lesker.com/newweb/flanges/hardware_cf_gaskets.cfm?pgid=ofhc) to seal the fitting; high vacuum is neat.
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Well, says 3 available, but I've seen amazon sellers do this with things that cost maybe $30, being listed at $400.
I bought a transistor tester from uk ebay a few months back, it said 0ver 10 availible
but the next day he messaged me saying they were so sorry blah blah and out of stock
and would i mind waiting 15 days.
I think they sometimes do that on purpose just to get your money
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Somewhat more electronics-related, along the same idea:
(http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/24/ruuvi_halvalla.jpg)
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If they where gold plated, hand dipped by virgins, sold by the single and labeled "Audio Grade" they probably sell massive quantities.
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These bolts must be made of adamantium then silver plated to warrant this price for 36 of them.
What's so objectionable about people trying to sell as much as they can? We all do that, and that's how a free market works.
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Thats just how much those bolts cost. Any large Vacuum stuff is nutty like that. The old Grey beard guy has to spit on them from just the right height and the ISO inspector had to have the right mix on his coffee that morning before they would sign off on them before they go into that pharma manufacturing plant. That sort of thing.
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They could be made of copper and silver plated to prevent corrosion. These are very common in industrial applications when you are bolting up large busses. Think in the order of 4000A at 480VAC.
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Somewhat more electronics-related, along the same idea:
(http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/24/ruuvi_halvalla.jpg)
what is that screw for ? was it a single screw for 60Eur + VAT ? :palm: if yes, then that's definitely overpriced !
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Try to price bolts used in aircraft engines. Use once is the mantra, and you only use them once, even if the engine has not been run and something breaks and you have to undo them. Titanium bolts, Ti nuts and Ti washers, and you need a special Ti spanner to tighten them and have to handle them with cotton gloves as well. Not one per engine either.........
That is why Jay Leno has so many turbine powered vehicles, the cost of overhauling the engines in the helicopters is so high that a new engine is cheaper, as you do not have to test all the parts again to see if they are still in tolerance and have not cracked internally. It failing on the ground, while it can be spectacular, is not quite as life threatening as if it happens 30m above the ground during take off. Not enough time to react, and you have enough fuel to make it really spectacular.
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If you go into a car main dealer and order a bolt or a screw as a spare you will get asked some stupid price and it will come sealed in a bag with a label printed full of what looks like gibberish, I would not source that way but many people do not know better and think that every part on their car is special to that car and do not realize that most bolts,screws and bearings come in standard sizes.
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no joke, I have a friend who does this kinda thing, albeit kinda legit?
He works for a company who makes rather large pumps (read the kind that can empty pools in mere seconds upwards 300m at a time-yes mining) and when the pumps get installed, if a part breaks because their grunt was too hamfisted with the part, he will often put stuff like replacement bolts at something like $1000. The single bolt might be something like $3 down at the store.
However the client is paying for the thing to /work/. If the pump fails, and it is due to a part they replaced themselves, the warranty would be void. So the mines happily pay the $1000 for the single bolt, as they keep the warranty intact.
If anyone is curious about the price of these pumps, as they say "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" or my friends way of putting it: "within two weeks of the financial year starting, I sold one pump which paid over my salary for the year."
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But if the bolt failed, "hamfisted has to be proven", do they still have to pay the $1000 for the bolt or is it under warranty?
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If you go into a car main dealer and order a bolt or a screw as a spare you will get asked some stupid price and it will come sealed in a bag with a label printed full of what looks like gibberish, I would not source that way but many people do not know better and think that every part on their car is special to that car and do not realize that most bolts,screws and bearings come in standard sizes.
those prices are not stupid for a bolt made of high strength steel , designed for 450Nm tightening torque and got special coating to avoid cold-welding (nothing unusual in a car industry) , but the above SONY screw looks like a one going into a plastic part.
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But if the bolt failed, "hamfisted has to be proven", do they still have to pay the $1000 for the bolt or is it under warranty?
You deal in numbers involving a magnitude of order larger then the cost of one bolt. Do you think you would be bothered going into the legal battle over a $1000 bolt? Easier to approve the thing, and have the thing working, to make money, then wait 3 months with the pump out of order, and it costing you billions of dollars.
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But if the bolt failed, "hamfisted has to be proven", do they still have to pay the $1000 for the bolt or is it under warranty?
You deal in numbers involving a magnitude of order larger then the cost of one bolt. Do you think you would be bothered going into the legal battle over a $1000 bolt? Easier to approve the thing, and have the thing working, to make money, then wait 3 months with the pump out of order, and it costing you billions of dollars.
Granted, but if we are talking about that much production money they probably will have contracts in place to ensure rapid service, it wouldn't be a matter of legal battles, it should be under contract to begin with.
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But if the bolt failed, "hamfisted has to be proven", do they still have to pay the $1000 for the bolt or is it under warranty?
You deal in numbers involving a magnitude of order larger then the cost of one bolt. Do you think you would be bothered going into the legal battle over a $1000 bolt? Easier to approve the thing, and have the thing working, to make money, then wait 3 months with the pump out of order, and it costing you billions of dollars.
and let's not forget that the $3 bolt (if it does even exists in that size for $3) from the hardware store would cold weld itself to the pump's body and it would crack in seconds at such a pressures (pumping 300m upwards is a hell of a pressure). probably those $1000 bolts are overpriced, but you can safely assume the real value of those bolts is somewhere in the $100s range.
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Go into Ford spares and ask for the 10 stretch bolts used on a CVH engine. You pay about $15 each. Go to the second source engine spares place and you get the exact same bolts for $5 each. The price difference is one comes with a warranty that if they break then Ford will replace the bolts and fix the damage if you assembled it correctly and tightened to the right torque and the right elongation. They are the same bolts from the same OEM, and just come in a bag with either the OEM sticker on it or a Ford Spares sticker stuck over them. The agents buy their spares from the second source place as well. You are not supposed to reuse them but in a pinch you can measure length and not use them if they are more than 2mm longer than original length. I reused a lot as normal M10 bolts in making things like spare tyre holders to fit through trailer frames. Some even got ground down to make extension sockets for those hard to reach bolts using a sacrificial cheap socket set or old sockets bought at a flea market.
The $1000 is not the cost of the bolt, it is the warranting that the bolt you use as a spare is going to pass the original spec and that you will replace the pump if it fails in service.As you typically have to take those large Warman pumps down in small pieces in a mine car and assemble the kit up to 3km underground in a rock room you will understand that using the wrong bolt can be kind of inconvenient, especially as if all the pumps are out of order you might not be able to get down to the pump room after a few minutes as it will be under 50m of water rising rapidly up the main shaft.
My dad worked on a copper mine, and if a pump was down they thought nothing of chartering an aircraft and flying in the spares post haste. 3AM call to a mine 4000km away to roust the storeman out of bed, ask him if he had XYZ in stock, and if yes then go to the mine and get it out and a truck will be there to take it to the airport where a cargo flight would be waiting for it. Bill sent later and paid without question. He once needed 18km of rubber belting post haste or even sooner, and had 11 cargo flights from various other mines bringing in lengths in process before they chose straws as to who was going to tell the mine manager that the belt replacement would now be longer than the 9 hours allocated for it, likely 2 days longer. This at 2AM on a Sunday morning.
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Same with toyota, the 4AGE engine head bolts cost about £65 for a set, they stretch at a particular torque so can only be used once
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Most diesel heads, and particularly those used in VW's are stretched bolts at the specified torque. Some people try to reuse them, but all they are really doing is cold forming the threads.. Not good..