Low cost reliable dosimeter for nuclear fallout survival?

[Avaalon]

Hello. I wanted to consult what kind of inexpensive Geiger device could be purchased to protect against radiation in the event of a nuclear fallout or power plant accident, detect radiation in food, water, clothes? Do I need alpha particle capable detector with mica window and are there affordable pancake detectors? I was considering getting a cheaper FNIRSI GC01 geiger counter but I was told chinese glass tubes have low sensitivity and that there issues with accuracy/oversaturation. I hoped to find detector under 100Eu but I can pay for device that might save life.

[eutectique]

"nu-klear" from Minutemen Industries Inc would be the cheapest one:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/g7uk2yRCqLA

[berke]

I suppose you are familiar with this DIY contraption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kearny_fallout_meter not as useful as a Geiger counter but better than nothing.

[SiliconWizard]

I wish more people in Europe had them after the Chernobyl event. Authorities were saying that radioactivity would not cross borders. Not sure where all these people would have gone if they had known, though. But suggesting some iodine supplementation would not have hurt. Probably.

https://www.pce-instruments.com/eu/measuring-instruments/test-meters/geiger-counter-kat_40582.htm

[David Hess]

Hello. I wanted to consult what kind of inexpensive Geiger device could be purchased to protect against radiation in the event of a nuclear fallout or power plant accident, detect radiation in food, water, clothes?

If you are interested in how dangerous an area is then an ionization detector or survey meter is more appropriate because a Geiger counter will saturate at a much lower level.  The first responders to Chernobyl should have had an ionization meter to measure exactly how dangerous the area was.

If you want to know if there was a far away nuclear accident, or if your food is contaminated, then a more sensitive instrument like a Geiger counter or gamma ray spectrometer is appropriate.  These devices will pick up the emissions from something like a thorium-containing incandescent mantle or ionization smoke detector, and can be used to detect a nuclear accident from hundreds of miles away, or radon in your basement.

Do I need alpha particle capable detector with mica window and are there affordable pancake detectors? I was considering getting a cheaper FNIRSI GC01 geiger counter but I was told chinese glass tubes have low sensitivity and that there issues with accuracy/oversaturation. I hoped to find detector under 100Eu but I can pay for device that might save life.

I do not think alpha detection will be strictly necessary because it will only reveal surface contamination anyway.  I suspect the glass tubes only have low sensitivity compared to a tube with a mica window because they will not pick up alpha radiation.

My gamma ray spectrometer has no difficulty detecting background levels of radiation and it is not alpha sensitive.

[Avaalon]

I wish more people in Europe had them after the Chernobyl event. Authorities were saying that radioactivity would not cross borders. Not sure where all these people would have gone if they had known, though. But suggesting some iodine supplementation would not have hurt. Probably.

https://www.pce-instruments.com/eu/measuring-instruments/test-meters/geiger-counter-kat_40582.htm

Since Belarus build Astravec nuclear plant near our city government issued to us iodine tablets.

I see a lot of interesting alternative to digital Geiger counters but I wasn't familiar with them. However I was familiar with cloud chamber which can distinguish three forms of radiation however building and using in case of fallout would be difficult.

I see plenty lower cost digital Geiger counters, are any of these good such as FNIRSI?

[Bud]

Iwould not bet my life on a Chinese made dosimeter. No offense.

[babysitter]

Iwould not bet my life on a Chinese made dosimeter. No offense.

Sufficient for Prepper LARPers, at least. (How big is the chance for sucessful "Oh, this batch of food is clean enough  while all the others are dangerous?")

SCNR
Hendi

[5U4GB]

I do not think alpha detection will be strictly necessary because it will only reveal surface contamination anyway.  I suspect the glass tubes only have low sensitivity compared to a tube with a mica window because they will not pick up alpha radiation.

The OP also mentioned cost, a decent pancake detector is going to be quite pricey compared to something built around an M4011 or similar.  The important thing, as you mention, is saturation level, but then if you're needing to read up at those levels paper and pen for a will would be more useful than knowing what grade of lethal dose you've absorbed.  So possibly a kit-based one where you learn something as well as being able to use it?

[David Hess]

Since Belarus build Astravec nuclear plant near our city government issued to us iodine tablets.

When the San Onofre nuclear power plant was in operation, Orange County refused to keep iodine tablets in reserve because it would be "alarming".

The OP also mentioned cost, a decent pancake detector is going to be quite pricey compared to something built around an M4011 or similar.  The important thing, as you mention, is saturation level, but then if you're needing to read up at those levels paper and pen for a will would be more useful than knowing what grade of lethal dose you've absorbed.  So possibly a kit-based one where you learn something as well as being able to use it?

The problem as I see it is that the Geiger counter will be useless in high radiation zones where you want to travel as safely as possible, or if you are stuck in a safe area but need to decide whether to flee through a dangerous area or not.  It just saturates at too low of a level and will not reveal how dangerous a truly dangerous area is.  But this is only going to come up with a local disaster which you should already know to avoid anyway.

How many times has this situation happened where it would affect third parties?  Chernobyl and SL-1 are the only ones which come to mind, and it really only affected emergency responders, so it is not something I would worry about or prepare for.  There have been other serious nuclear accidents, but not where third parties are likely to be present.

Get a Geiger counter instead, or at least first, and worry less about the sensitivity.

[.RC.]

There is a seller in Ukraine that sells radiatio0n detection tubes and what not on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ssn=dosimeters_radiometers_counters&store_name=dosimetersradiometersdetectors

I bought a SBM-20 geiger tube based kit from them years ago. Plus I have an alpha, beta, gamma detecting tube only here I bought from them, but not yet done anything with.

[jonpaul]

Just see this topic. Perhaps misconceptions...

1/ Dosimeter is integrated flux of particles over time, eg a film badge or Lauretsen electrometer.

2/ Geiger counters are for Gamma radiation and need a very delicate and special tube for Alpha.

3/ Nuclear device fallout and prompt radiation is Alpha particles, Beta Rays and Gamma rays.

Detection of each differs.

4/ Pancake probes and scintillators  use a doped plastic or zinc sulfide sensor with PM tube to detect alpha particles on a surface. Typically used in the Services to detect leakage of nuclear devices or power plants eg in submarines.

Save time and money .....first  read a bit on nuclear radiation, dosimetry, and detectors before proceeding.


You cannot get  ..cheap..accurate..capable of detecting dangerous radiation...DIY.

5/ 1950s Cold War had the USA Civil Defense purchase 100 of thousands of Lauritzen dosimeters  and chargers.

Easily found on epay, $30..100 some may still work. Needs a 100V variable DC charger.
  Look for  Bendix or Victoreen CD V-750   Charger  l Dosimeters 742  etc.

Stay safe!

From an optimist in the nuclear age

Jon

PS: Dr Strangelove 50 yeas ago

[5U4GB]

I bought a SBM-20 geiger tube based kit from them years ago. Plus I have an alpha, beta, gamma detecting tube only here I bought from them, but not yet done anything with.

You used to be able to get SBM-20s cheap as chips before Fukushima and then suddenly the prices skyrocketed overnight.  Are SBM-20's still being manufactured now or is it all old Soviet-era stock?  That's why I mentioned the M4011, and more recently J30x's, they seem to be the modern equivalent of the jellybean SBM-20's.

If you want to get fancy without breaking the bank, there's a pocket gamma-ray spectrometer made by a group called RadiaCode that uses a solid-state CsI:Tl detector so you don't have to mess around with photomultipliers and multichannel-analysers, you give up a bit of sensitivity in exchange but it's nicely portable and they're constantly updating the app that provides the readout and analysis.

[Kleinstein]

The cheap meters are by far not sensitive enough to check food to a sensible level. If really afraid, better get a reserve stock of some food, bottled water.

For the external contaminations, this is usually the lesser problem and the obvious points where particles accumulate are know even without a meter. So even a working meter is of rather limited value.

[Avaalon]

There is a seller in Ukraine that sells radiatio0n detection tubes and what not on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ssn=dosimeters_radiometers_counters&store_name=dosimetersradiometersdetectors

I bought a SBM-20 geiger tube based kit from them years ago. Plus I have an alpha, beta, gamma detecting tube only here I bought from them, but not yet done anything with.

I fact did contact ukrainian Ebay seller and he told that chinese Geiger counters are not sensitive enough. But not sure if he wasn't just trying to push his product. He had some old looking, soviet Geiger counters. SBM-20 is just a tube, what is ready Geiger counter I could purchase?

Here is a list of dosimeter he recommended:
Now to the essence of your question.
If you want the simplest possible dosimeter, then I recommend you the IRA-01 dosimeter:
https://<a>www.ebay.com/itm/195745152485<;/a>
Or keychain-dosimeter Biri:
https://<a>www.ebay.com/itm/195729586117<;/a>
If you want a more advanced dosimeter with an LCD screen, then I recommend you:
Master-1 (with one counter):
https://<a>www.ebay.com/itm/196052505949<;/a>
Bella (with one counter):
https://<a>www.ebay.com/itm/204286573017<;/a>
Jupiter (with two counters):
https://<a>www.ebay.com/itm/195838368013<;/a>
Anri Sosna (with four (!!!) counters):
https://<a>www.ebay.com/itm/204552612344<;/a>
If you want a dosimeter that will definitely help you survive a nuclear war, then I recommend you a military metal dosimeter ((with four (!!!) counters):
https://<a>www.ebay.com/itm/204282870751<;/a>
If you want a dosimeter that can measure both gamma and beta radiation and is quite cheap, then I recommend Pripyat:
https://<a>www.ebay.com/itm/204277500290<;/a>
And if you want a dosimeter that measures both gamma and beta radiation, calculates the accumulated dose and sounds an alarm when there is a dangerous level of radiation, then I recommend you Terra-P plus:
https://<a>www.ebay.com/itm/204259641715<;/a>

[David Hess]

If you want to get fancy without breaking the bank, there's a pocket gamma-ray spectrometer made by a group called RadiaCode that uses a solid-state CsI:Tl detector so you don't have to mess around with photomultipliers and multichannel-analysers, you give up a bit of sensitivity in exchange but it's nicely portable and they're constantly updating the app that provides the readout and analysis.

That is an amazing deal for a a gamma ray spectrometer.  It might not be quite as sensitive as mine, which easily reads background levels below 5 uR/h, but they say it picks up background levels and that is sensitive enough.

https://www.radiacode.com

[5U4GB]

Yeah, it's a pretty neat deal.  I've also got a more conventional PMT-based one with an MCA but that's a lot of gear to set up, with the Radiacode you just leave the sample for long enough in a lead castle that you can build up a decent spectrum and that'll tell you what you've got.  For example when I wanted to see what was in a few of those woo-woo "scalar energy" pendants I used the Radiacode and got a nice thorium spectrum with minimal effort/maximal lazi... uh, convenience.

[Njk]

It seems that this type of sensor is state of the art at the time. Almost similar device (Gamma + Beta), of a different brand:
https://www.quarta-rad.ru/en/catalog/dozimetr-radiometr-radon/radex_obsidian/

[Avaalon]

I saw for sale in my country soviet sosna anri-01-02 that I believe has even four geiger tubes. How good beta sensitivity it has?

[Njk]

I saw for sale in my country soviet sosna anri-01-02 that I believe has even four geiger tubes. How good beta sensitivity it has?

Two tubes, according to the schematics
https://dosimeter.ucoz.ru/Ebay/dozimetr_radiometr_anri01_sosna.pdf

[Avaalon]

So I decided to buy a US company made used GMC-300E+ geiger counter and I found out that it for some reason originally uses a lower quality glass  chinese J305 geiger tube. I have seen on Youtube that these tubes are being removed and replaced with soviet SBM-20 tubes. As I understand it, the larger tubes are more sensitive to radiation and the metal housing is more durable than the glass one, the glass ones can become more sensitive to light as well. Are the SBM-20 tubes the best for modding or are they just the most popular/have best price quality ratio?

[5U4GB]

So I decided to buy a US company made used GMC-300E+ geiger counter and I found out that it for some reason originally uses a lower quality glass  chinese J305 geiger tube.

That was one of the readily-available Chinese cheapie tubes I mentioned earlier, GQ used to use M4011s a while back.  In any case the GQ devices are cheap, work well enough for things like checking mineral samples, and are easily available via Amazon and similar.

[Avaalon]

Most important application for it is in case of fallout or nuclear plant accident survival because my city Vilnius is close to Belarussian unsafe Astravec nuclear plant. If Putin decides to use nuclear weapons against NATO or even Ukraine there could be severe danger of nuclear fallout. So I need to be sure if gmc-300s modified or unmodified would be able to save life and help reduce radiation poisoning.

[David Hess]

How much did you pay and how much will the modifications cost?

The Radiacode is about $300.

[Avaalon]

I paid 97Eu including shipping from USA and taxes. SBM-20 tube costs 15-20Eu.