Anyone ever heard of Infrared Engineering (English company)?

[PascalNE]

Hello,
I realise this might be a shot in the dark but I thought some people in this forum might've worked in manufacturing and could've used it.
Infrared Engineering was an English engineering company that specialised in the creation of Moisture thickness and other meters using infrared light. It was founded in 1969 ( I think) by two lecturers from Imperial college London (one of  whom was my Grandfather)  It was later sold in 1996 to "fairey group" now "spectris" and became "NDC Infrared Engineering" I think it has now been sold again to "Nordson Measurement Group" But it still maintains an office in maldon where it was founded.

I was just wondering if anybody had any experience using the equipment and if so what applications was it used for (of course it is all pre-internet so there isn't much information)?

(I've attached a picture below of the logo and also the MM55 which seems to be their most popular product and frequently comes up on Ebay)

[coppercone2]

I want to know what would happen if you made an adjustment

Moisture thickness with infrared light sounds like a dew point or humidity detector. You reflect light off a mirror and see when it gets messed up by droplets from condensation. Also might now be the tech they use to determine when to turn on your wipers in a carr

in a closed system you can look for a reflux band (distillation control)

[PascalNE]

Apologies I meant to put a comma there as in moisture, thickness  But It is very interesting stuff a lot of it in the days before any digital processing could be done I remember my Grandfather saying they waited years before they switched to digital and just put a digital display on the end of their already proven analogue circuits.

[PA0PBZ]

You probably found this already: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0166497282900116
Paywall of course 

[PascalNE]

I hadn’t thank you. Annoying  they are charging so much for something thats quite irrelevant now but I suppose that’s what academic publishers do…

[grumpydoc]

I was just wondering if anybody had any experience using the equipment and if so what applications was it used for (of course it is all pre-internet so there isn't much information)?

Absolutely no experience - but googling variations on "Infrared Engineering Ltd" or "NDC Infrared Engineering Ltd" produces a few hits. Interestingly according to Companies House "Infrared Engineering Ltd" was only dissolved in 2023

As for applications - presumably this sort of thing:

https://digicomst.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/1996_07_18.pdf

[PascalNE]

I think that may be a different Infrared engineering on companies house since it was merged with NDC in the 90s. I'd never seen that paper before pretty amazing that you can determine the fat protien and mositure content just with light.

[PascalNE]

I did manage to find one of the instruments buried under some boxes in the corner of the coach house a "Moistrex 2000" IIRC. I thought I'd post it here becuase its a cool old instrument. From what my grandfather said it seemed to have been a microwave based moisture meter for lab use (mostly they did on-(production)line)
As you can see its covered in dust but still turned on surprisingly no idea if it is working correctly its probably out of cal after 40-50 years
From a sticker on the back it seemed to have worked in a paper factory. The display is pretty cool looks a bit like nixie tubes although I'm not exactly sure.

[TimFox]

The display uses Nixie tubes.
Note that the numbers are individually formed (no segments), and the subtle mesh electrode behind the front glass.
The numbers are stacked out of order, to minimize interference from those in front.

[PascalNE]

Yes I thought so also in the pictures its hard to tell what the numbers are but in person it was bright and clear. So pretty impressive longevity.

[frank4t]

Great to see the name "Infrared Engineering" again. I worked with Roger Edgar on a government contract 1992-94 and the Moisturex that you have in your garage was refined. It is a very ingenious instrument as the lid and base plate make a "split" microwave waveguide when closed so power can pass from source to detector with no loss. When paper is placed on the base plate and the lid closed   THEN  microwave power is absorbed and the power loss is used to quantify the moisture content of the paper. 
Very best wishes to you (and to your Moisturex)
Frank

[frank4t]

Just to add a picture  from the new moisturex model

[nali]

I did manage to find one of the instruments buried under some boxes in the corner of the coach house a "Moistrex 2000" IIRC. I thought I'd post it here becuase its a cool old instrument. From what my grandfather said it seemed to have been a microwave based moisture meter for lab use (mostly they did on-(production)line)
As you can see its covered in dust but still turned on surprisingly no idea if it is working correctly its probably out of cal after 40-50 years
From a sticker on the back it seemed to have worked in a paper factory. The display is pretty cool looks a bit like nixie tubes although I'm not exactly sure.

That looks very much like a product from my apprenticeship days (1979-), made by Rank Precision Industries. Construction like the newer MX800 - the hinged lid and base are 2 halves of a waveguide fed by a 10GHz Gunn diode. Zero the meter with no paper then the meter shows the dB loss when the paper is inserted translated to a percentage value. Used in paper mills.

[frank4t]

Rank Precision Industries is another good name to hear, thanks.
So many good names and they all have disappeared into our history books.

[PascalNE]

Thanks for sharing that info I couldn't find much on it at all. Always great to uncover more. 
Maybe next time I'm there I'll see if I can get any meaningful results out of it.

[mikebell]

Hi. I was a lead developer of the MX5000 at Infrared Engineering, Maldon in the early 90s.

The machine’s predecessor, the MX2000, was an analogue device which was created by Rank (in Hertfordshire, I believe).

I was tasked with designing a digital version of the MX2000 and was greatly assisted by Gordon Anderson, an engineer with long experience of the device since the Rank days.

A large part of the brief was to design a replacement microwave power sensor. The MX2000 measured microwave absorption indirectly by controlling an expensive PIN attenuator to keep power levels constant at the detector. Roger Edgar had an idea that we could measure power directly using a pyroelectric medium. I designed such a device. We had the guts of it made by Fulmer Research centre in Stoke Poges, as they had experience of depositing thin films of nichrome on substrates.

I also wrote the device’s software (in FORTH), and my fondest claim to fame was the design of the looping split waveguide channel in the lid. The brief was to come up with a shape that would have a specific length, area, and minimum radius of curvature. I did this on my desk using various pieces of cut up paper!

Fond days.

[nali]

Hi. I was a lead developer of the MX5000 at Infrared Engineering, Maldon in the early 90s.

The machine’s predecessor, the MX2000, was an analogue device which was created by Rank (in Hertfordshire, I believe).

I was tasked with designing a digital version of the MX2000 and was greatly assisted by Gordon Anderson, an engineer with long experience of the device since the Rank days.

A large part of the brief was to design a replacement microwave power sensor. The MX2000 measured microwave absorption indirectly by controlling an expensive PIN attenuator to keep power levels constant at the detector. Roger Edgar had an idea that we could measure power directly using a pyroelectric medium. I designed such a device. We had the guts of it made by Fulmer Research centre in Stoke Poges, as they had experience of depositing thin films of nichrome on substrates.

Wow, I remember Gorgon (vaguely!) from my apprentice days. He was the developer or lead engineer for that product if I remember correctly at Rank Flowtronic, part of Rank Precision at Ware, Hertfordshire. (That site is now an ADSA supermarket BTW)

Yes, the PIN was part of a closed loop; the machine was zeroed with no paper then when the paper put in the offset measured, scaled and displayed. All analogue, the readout was basically a DMM.

[PascalNE]

Hi. I was a lead developer of the MX5000 at Infrared Engineering, Maldon in the early 90s.

The machine’s predecessor, the MX2000, was an analogue device which was created by Rank (in Hertfordshire, I believe).

I was tasked with designing a digital version of the MX2000 and was greatly assisted by Gordon Anderson, an engineer with long experience of the device since the Rank days.

A large part of the brief was to design a replacement microwave power sensor. The MX2000 measured microwave absorption indirectly by controlling an expensive PIN attenuator to keep power levels constant at the detector. Roger Edgar had an idea that we could measure power directly using a pyroelectric medium. I designed such a device. We had the guts of it made by Fulmer Research centre in Stoke Poges, as they had experience of depositing thin films of nichrome on substrates.

I also wrote the device’s software (in FORTH), and my fondest claim to fame was the design of the looping split waveguide channel in the lid. The brief was to come up with a shape that would have a specific length, area, and minimum radius of curvature. I did this on my desk using various pieces of cut up paper!

Thanks, that's very interesting to hear I was quite curious about how this product functioned compared to what seemed to be their more popular on-line (production line)  products like the MM55 that used infrared. I'll give the moisturex another look when I go back in the summer, it's probably not doing too well though after 30 years in the coach house.

[mikebell]

Yeah, the MM55 was a popular product. It was, of course, functionally very different, using a series of spinning infrared filters to illuminate a target and infer constituent properties from the absorbed or reflected light.

Its Electronic Control Unit did share a lot of technology with the MX5000, as both had an 8080 CPU and motherboard running the same FORTH interpreter. I was responsible for the design of the MM55 gauge communications protocol that allowed external equipment to read measurement data over an RS232 line.

[PascalNE]

Yeah, the MM55 was a popular product. It was, of course, functionally very different, using a series of spinning infrared filters to illuminate a target and infer constituent properties from the absorbed or reflected light.

Its Electronic Control Unit did share a lot of technology with the MX5000, as both had an 8080 CPU and motherboard running the same FORTH interpreter. I was responsible for the design of the MM55 gauge communications protocol that allowed external equipment to read measurement data over an RS232 line.

That's very interesting, I think the MM55 is the only product I've seen pop up for sale over the years when I look up IE (all in the US for some reason) not that you'd be able to get any documentation I think all of that has vanished to time.