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Lunar landing anniversary today

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james_s:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 23, 2022, 08:52:27 pm ---It's built in. Propagating the species is the reason we can have sex, so it's not like we don't care (as a species).

And you're right that we personally won't be here for long, so why fart around with the climate stuff and anything else that takes more than 20-30 years? We won't be around to worry about what the next generation has to put up with.

But, for some reason, we do care. We do give a toss about what we're leaving our kids or even other people's kids. That's what's special about our species, if nothing else, and I don't see why that should be an issue. After all, if you don't want to be a part of that you can always check out early.

--- End quote ---

Farting around with the climate stuff, or whatever efforts needed to preserve our planet is saving or improving the lives of vast numbers of people that are already born and that will soon be born. It serves a purpose to prevent the deaths of people that are already alive and reduce their suffering. Finding a new planet to inhabit doesn't accomplish that, it does nothing for the *vast* majority of the population that are going to die in a cataclysmic event. It is not possible to evacuate the population of the earth even if we had somewhere to go, all we can do is send a few seeds somewhere else and that is not the same thing at all. To put it into perspective, no matter how badly we screw up or pollute our planet, it's going to remain far more habitable than any other place we are capable of reaching without some kind of warp propulsion. Rebuilding earth after a nuclear holocaust is easy next to colonizing Mars.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: james_s on July 24, 2022, 06:34:14 pm ---To put it into perspective, no matter how badly we screw up or pollute our planet, it's going to remain far more habitable than any other place we are capable of reaching without some kind of warp propulsion. Rebuilding earth after a nuclear holocaust is easy next to colonizing Mars.

--- End quote ---

Yup. Of course.
We'd literally need to blow up the Earth in order to make colonizing another (close) planet a viable alternative.
(I added 'close', just in case we end up finding a very far away planet, in a completely different galaxy, that would be easier to colonize than, say, Mars. But that hypothesis is still pretty unlikely, if just for the probable distance if such a planet does exist, making it a lot more likely that the human species would have long disappeared by the time we could.)

james_s:

--- Quote from: magic on July 24, 2022, 05:55:12 am ---Individuals and populations like you are a self-correcting problem, even before taking dunkemhigh's advice.

You can thank you rationalist-neoliberal brainwashing for your feelings about life. Many such cases in your country, and a big reason why it totally sucks today.

--- End quote ---

I don't even know what nationalist-neoliberal means, nor do I see what politics have to do with any of this, I just call it as I see it. Life is a series of rather impressive chemical reactions. Even being one of them, I view humans as somewhat of a parasite on the universe. We consume vast quantities of resources, destroy the landscape, pollute the air, and we kill our own species both in wars and on smaller scales over trivial matters and material goods. The planet is overpopulated and getting worse all the time. I grew up in a nice quiet rural area which has now been completely overrun. All of our open space including loads of prime agricultural land have been paved and built over with thousands of cookie cutter housing developments. Our roads are clogged at almost all hours of the day and night and everywhere is so crowded that it feels suffocating and is becoming unbearable, I have a constant feeling that people are in my way. I would absolutely love it if the population dropped to 1970s levels but I don't see that happening, and some people actually want it to keep growing which boggles the mind. Talk about a self correcting problem, at some point wars over diminishing resources will destroy us, long before our planet dies of natural causes. At some point mother nature is going to slap us down into our place, the Covid pandemic was a bit like a warning shot.

We have an amazing planet to live on, one that is perfectly suited to us, and we are busy trashing it and looking for the next place to take over and trash rather than focusing on taking care of the place we have. If there is life elsewhere in the universe that is aware of us, I would not blame them in the least for not making themselves known.

PlainName:

--- Quote ---We have an amazing planet to live on, one that is perfectly suited to us
--- End quote ---

Actually, one to which we are perfectly suited.

pcprogrammer:

--- Quote from: james_s on July 24, 2022, 06:34:14 pm ---Farting around with the climate stuff, or whatever efforts needed to preserve our planet is saving or improving the lives of vast numbers of people that are already born and that will soon be born. It serves a purpose to prevent the deaths of people that are already alive and reduce their suffering.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: james_s on July 24, 2022, 09:12:01 pm ---We consume vast quantities of resources, destroy the landscape, pollute the air, and we kill our own species both in wars and on smaller scales over trivial matters and material goods. The planet is overpopulated and getting worse all the time.

--- End quote ---

These two statements are a bit contradictive. On the one hand you want to prevent death, and on the other hand you are complaining about overpopulation.

The latter is the sore truth we don't want to hear. And the more the population grows the harder it gets to feed and keep them all alive. But it is the only economic viable option, because that is the system we adhere.


--- Quote from: james_s on July 24, 2022, 06:34:14 pm ---Rebuilding earth after a nuclear holocaust is easy next to colonizing Mars.

--- End quote ---

In comparison probably true, but it still would take a lot of effort and resources. The biggest problem I see in the whole survival of the human race is the availability of resources. It is not just fossil fuels that are not endlessly available, it is a lot of other resources too. There is not enough easy obtainable lithium on the planet to make batteries for every car on the planet, the same goes for cobalt, and all the other materials needed to keep all industry a float.

So saving the human race needs a whole other attitude than the thought of science and technology will save the day. But that is not convenient, because we can't do without it anymore. Just take a look at the smart phone. Go out onto the streets of whatever city and you see people walking with the thing glued to their hand.


--- Quote from: james_s on July 24, 2022, 09:12:01 pm ---Talk about a self correcting problem, at some point wars over diminishing resources will destroy us, long before our planet dies of natural causes. At some point
mother nature is going to slap us down into our place, the Covid pandemic was a bit like a warning shot.

--- End quote ---

Very true. If you look at it closely, we are no different than large colonies of, for instance, rats. When there are to many of them they start eating each other and disease starts to spread more and more reducing their numbers to a livable level, to just start over again.

With the way we are roaming the world nowadays diseases will spread much faster, and indeed Covid is a good example of that. But with only a less then 5% death rate it would have made just a very small dent in the global population, no where near what is needed to reduce the population to a true sustainable level. That is what mankind will do themselves eventually when resources are so scarce that wars will be started over them.

And then, just like the rats, it will start all over again, only to find itself on a planet without natural resources. Sure at first it is possible to recycle what was harvested before, but that also is not endless.

And this al might seem gloom, but it is the ugly truth.


--- Quote from: james_s on July 24, 2022, 09:12:01 pm ---We have an amazing planet to live on, one that is perfectly suited to us, and we are busy trashing it and looking for the next place to take over and trash rather than focusing on taking care of the place we have.

--- End quote ---

Very well said. It is very beautiful and for as far as we can see or tell unique, but boy do we fuck it up.


--- Quote from: james_s on July 24, 2022, 09:12:01 pm ---I grew up in a nice quiet rural area which has now been completely overrun. All of our open space including loads of prime agricultural land have been paved and built over with thousands of cookie cutter housing developments. Our roads are clogged at almost all hours of the day and night and everywhere is so crowded that it feels suffocating and is becoming unbearable, I have a constant feeling that people are in my way.

--- End quote ---

And that is why the wife and I fled the Netherlands to rural France. Here we can go for a nice walk without a single encounter with an other person. Going to the supermarket is a bit of a travel, but it is always a confirmation that we did the right thing. Way to many people mindlessly going about filling their shopping carts with trash :o


--- Quote from: james_s on July 24, 2022, 09:12:01 pm ---If there is life elsewhere in the universe that is aware of us, I would not blame them in the least for not making themselves known.

--- End quote ---

At least with our way of living we did one thing right. We made our planet unattractive for whatever life there is in the universe. Only when they like human flesh they can have a large feast  :-DD


Edit: And think about it, in the grand scheme, does it really matter when the human race goes extinct? Are we so special compared to, for instance, the dinosaurs or any of the other species that we actively eradicated from the planet?

Only a small number of people actually made big discoveries to further the species as a whole, but this does not stop everyone pounding its own chest and saying how great we are. And when it goes wrong it is always someone else to blame.

Just like with your favorite football team. When they win it is "we did great" and when they loose it is, "dammit the assholes lost the game". Or "I'm from Armenia", like a chef in a restaurant told us, "and some famous people come form there. Like Cher and Charles Aznavour." Yes, but what does that say about you? Did you have anything to do with them becoming famous?

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