M1 Mac SSD and RAM can be upgraded. Also, grass is green.

[eti]

The consumers believe all they hear, and until some "official revelation" is published <woo woo! waving of hands!> no one believes the obvious (which is extrapolated from the VERY VERY OBVIOUS that looking at the M1 SoC shows it to have 2x BGA RAM dies, and the mobo has 2x SSD ICs... ) I'd hardly gravitate to "Mac Rumors" as my first port of call as to whether or not something INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS could be achieved.. wow.

These guys act like it's magic - it's JUST SOLDER - electronic glue, and the chips are just soldered on. This kind of reporting puts the person having "made the 'discovery' " out to be some form of magician genius... 

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/06/m1-mac-ram-and-ssd-upgrades-possible/

[ataradov]

It was not obvious that replaced ICs would be recognized by the OS. And I bet they won't be recognized by the next patch. Just like you can't replace SSD chips on the current MAC devices.

Apple probably did not think people are crazy enough to try that, but once advertised as possible, they will surely block it.

[eti]

I see the whole thing as a pointless excercise; well of course they can swap the chips for larger ones - Apple sell the Mac with the same RAM/SSD specs as was swapped for in this experiment - so DUH - yeah of course, Apple have them in warehouses at the same specs.

[rsjsouza]

I didn't see they were using PoP (Package on Package)... Nasty little things from the cellphone world - the first I saw was the then new OMAP3530, part of the original BeagleBoard.

But yes, the title of the article is terribly misleading. I don't think Apple will worry too much, as the operation is terribly error prone and, unless someone starts offering upgrade services at relatively low cost, it will be noise.

[ataradov]

well of course they can swap the chips for larger ones

This is not "of course". Apple ties serial numbers of the chips to the motherboard. Swapped chips brick the device.

And this processor will also tie memories to the core, so this trick will not work.

[amyk]

They are just like iPhones now. If they can serial-lock them, they're using proprietary parts.

[ledtester]

While the three M1 Macs released in late 2020 have been widely praised for a host of advancements, one criticism has been that the hardware is not upgradeable or repairable after the purchase with the major components soldered to the board. In an interesting development, an engineer in China has reportedly discovered how to successfully upgrade both the SSD and RAM on M1 Macs – but of course, it’s a very risky and difficult move.


 
With older Macs, if users didn’t want to pay for more RAM or more storage upfront, it was possible with a variety of models to upgrade those components later on. Over the years, that’s become less of an option and for the M1 Macs, it was thought to be impossible with the RAM and SSD directly soldered to the M1 chip.

However, just like we’ve seen with aftermarket iPhone and iPad hardware upgrades, someone has allegedly cracked how to replace memory and storage with M1 Macs correctly recognizing the upgrades.

This is just a copy-paste from: https://9to5mac.com/2021/04/06/m1-mac-ssd-and-ram-upgrade/

[tooki]

It was not obvious that replaced ICs would be recognized by the OS. And I bet they won't be recognized by the next patch. Just like you can't replace SSD chips on the current MAC devices.

Apple probably did not think people are crazy enough to try that, but once advertised as possible, they will surely block it.

They replaced the RAM and SSD from low configurations to a higher configuration which is one Apple offers. It’s no surprise at all that it works.

While Apple certainly has the size/volume to commission custom memory and flash memory ICs, it makes little sense to do so, given the inherent impracticality of replacing fine-pitch BGA chips.

The main hurdle to replacing soldered SSDs in most Apple hardware (something only even attempted for data recovery) is that the contents of the SSD are hardware encrypted with a key that doesn’t travel with the SSD itself. The flash memory chips themselves are standard AFAIK.

The components that really are tightly integrated, with lockouts, are everything having to do with
1) security, including the SSD controller, Touch ID and Face ID sensors, etc. It does make third party repairs far more difficult, but does make a ton of sense in the context of building a hardened hardware architecture, which Apple very vocally has been doing.
2) safety, especially batteries and chargers. (As a company, do you want the bad press and potential liability caused by a low-quality third party battery or charger literally killing someone?) Even so, Apple doesn’t disallow third party chargers.

[tooki]

I didn't see they were using PoP (Package on Package)... Nasty little things from the cellphone world - the first I saw was the then new OMAP3530, part of the original BeagleBoard.

But yes, the title of the article is terribly misleading. I don't think Apple will worry too much, as the operation is terribly error prone and, unless someone starts offering upgrade services at relatively low cost, it will be noise.

The M1 being the initial iteration, one very clearly derived directly from the iPad Pro’s SoC, it’s not surprising that it’s also a PoP. I mean, in essence, the M1 Macs basically are the iPad Pro hardware architecture moved to two different form factors.

But I’d be surprised if later Mac Apple Silicon doesn’t include versions with support for socketed RAM and SSD, and probably GPUs. Since they intend to roll our Apple Silicon across the Mac product line, including high-end pro workstations, they’re going to need to scale up all the hardware, and I doubt you’d even want it all tightly integrated for thermal reasons. Plus they’re going to need to break out PCIe buses and stuff for expansion, since the pro customers need things like uncompressed video capture cards.

[tom66]

The fact that Apple sees fit to ship a £1300 laptop with 8GB of RAM is the most disturbing thing about this all.

[tooki]

The fact that Apple sees fit to ship a £1300 laptop with 8GB of RAM is the most disturbing thing about this all.

I kinda agree, though Apple is far from alone in that. A lot of the top-quality PC vendors also sell super-slim laptops in the same price class with just 8GB RAM.

I am long, long overdue for new computers (both Macs for my personal use, and now I need a PC for school), and I don’t even like the thought of just 16GB! I want 32GB at least, at least on my workhorse Mac.

[tszaboo]

Maybe they could do this new thing, where they dont place the memory on the SOC. They place it on this extra PCB, and then it is possible to replace the memory. Maybe they could do this to, IDK, the SSD, the memory and the wireless. Or how about a replaceable battery pack. Or a replaceable CPU. You know instead of soldering it to the MB directly, you have some sort of mechanical way of attaching it to the MB.
So this way the laptop doesn't turn into e-waste when a 12 year old kid codes the next website in java and uses too much RAM. Do you think this would be feasible?

[tooki]

Maybe they could do this new thing, where they dont place the memory on the SOC. They place it on this extra PCB, and then it is possible to replace the memory. Maybe they could do this to, IDK, the SSD, the memory and the wireless. Or how about a replaceable battery pack. Or a replaceable CPU. You know instead of soldering it to the MB directly, you have some sort of mechanical way of attaching it to the MB.
So this way the laptop doesn't turn into e-waste when a 12 year old kid codes the next website in java and uses too much RAM. Do you think this would be feasible?

That’s crazy talk!

[Microdoser]

Yup, that is just as easy as pulling out a DIMM and swapping it for a new one. That grass is totally the same colour as all other grass.

[rsjsouza]

I didn't see they were using PoP (Package on Package)... Nasty little things from the cellphone world - the first I saw was the then new OMAP3530, part of the original BeagleBoard.

But yes, the title of the article is terribly misleading. I don't think Apple will worry too much, as the operation is terribly error prone and, unless someone starts offering upgrade services at relatively low cost, it will be noise.

The M1 being the initial iteration, one very clearly derived directly from the iPad Pro’s SoC, it’s not surprising that it’s also a PoP. I mean, in essence, the M1 Macs basically are the iPad Pro hardware architecture moved to two different form factors.

I see. That brings an interesting wrinkle where an iPad Pro could then potentially run macOS. Sure, such operation would be just a patch away, but it certainly makes you wonder.

But I’d be surprised if later Mac Apple Silicon doesn’t include versions with support for socketed RAM and SSD, and probably GPUs. Since they intend to roll our Apple Silicon across the Mac product line, including high-end pro workstations, they’re going to need to scale up all the hardware, and I doubt you’d even want it all tightly integrated for thermal reasons. Plus they’re going to need to break out PCIe buses and stuff for expansion, since the pro customers need things like uncompressed video capture cards.

Freudian slip? 

At any rate, I agree they can diversify and explore alternative options, but one of the most common bottlenecks for high end ARM processors is interconnections - memory controller, I/O, etc. One thing is the command line project build operation mentioned by BD139, but another are latencies and sheer volume of transfers when using high performance 3D and computing graphics. The scalability of their current architecture remains to be seen.

[Microdoser]

The fact that Apple sees fit to ship a £1300 laptop with 8GB of RAM is the most disturbing thing about this all.

I kinda agree, though Apple is far from alone in that. A lot of the top-quality PC vendors also sell super-slim laptops in the same price class with just 8GB RAM.

I am long, long overdue for new computers (both Macs for my personal use, and now I need a PC for school), and I don’t even like the thought of just 16GB! I want 32GB at least, at least on my workhorse Mac.

Just recently I was outside my house and found an abandoned PC in the street, people often leave items out so anyone who would find them useful can pick them up.

It was an I7 6700K, 24GB RAM and a 256GB M.2 SSD. The graphics card was toast

I have now updated my concept of 'trash' to include anything with specs lower than that.

8GB these days is just a joke.

[tszaboo]

Maybe they could do this new thing, where they dont place the memory on the SOC. They place it on this extra PCB, and then it is possible to replace the memory. Maybe they could do this to, IDK, the SSD, the memory and the wireless. Or how about a replaceable battery pack. Or a replaceable CPU. You know instead of soldering it to the MB directly, you have some sort of mechanical way of attaching it to the MB.
So this way the laptop doesn't turn into e-waste when a 12 year old kid codes the next website in java and uses too much RAM. Do you think this would be feasible?

That’s crazy talk!

I know! But the real crazy talk is this:

Just recently I was outside my house

[Microdoser]

Maybe they could do this new thing, where they dont place the memory on the SOC. They place it on this extra PCB, and then it is possible to replace the memory. Maybe they could do this to, IDK, the SSD, the memory and the wireless. Or how about a replaceable battery pack. Or a replaceable CPU. You know instead of soldering it to the MB directly, you have some sort of mechanical way of attaching it to the MB.
So this way the laptop doesn't turn into e-waste when a 12 year old kid codes the next website in java and uses too much RAM. Do you think this would be feasible?

That’s crazy talk!

I know! But the real crazy talk is this:

Just recently I was outside my house

I know, once I was back inside I had to have a little sit in my favourite chair to calm down.

[BrokenYugo]

The fact that Apple sees fit to ship a £1300 laptop with 8GB of RAM is the most disturbing thing about this all.

That is pretty bad, especially for a "high end" manufacturer. Last time I spent that kind of coin on a laptop was almost 10 years ago and I got 12GB!

[John B]

16 GB is probably a fair minimum RAM now. I have just finished building a new system with Catalina and it regularly uses 9 GB, even before getting to intensive stuff like video editing. The new macs seem to mask this shortfall with their fast SSDs by utilising a lot of page file swapping. For the price that macs go for, cmon just toss in an extra 8GB over standard.

[Monkeh]

For the price that macs go for, cmon just toss in an extra 8GB over standard.

Why would they do that when they know people will pay 4x the going rate for the upgrade? Never make the mistake of thinking Apple have morals.

[tooki]

I didn't see they were using PoP (Package on Package)... Nasty little things from the cellphone world - the first I saw was the then new OMAP3530, part of the original BeagleBoard.

But yes, the title of the article is terribly misleading. I don't think Apple will worry too much, as the operation is terribly error prone and, unless someone starts offering upgrade services at relatively low cost, it will be noise.

The M1 being the initial iteration, one very clearly derived directly from the iPad Pro’s SoC, it’s not surprising that it’s also a PoP. I mean, in essence, the M1 Macs basically are the iPad Pro hardware architecture moved to two different form factors.

I see. That brings an interesting wrinkle where an iPad Pro could then potentially run macOS. Sure, such operation would be just a patch away, but it certainly makes you wonder.

But I’d be surprised if later Mac Apple Silicon doesn’t include versions with support for socketed RAM and SSD, and probably GPUs. Since they intend to roll our Apple Silicon across the Mac product line, including high-end pro workstations, they’re going to need to scale up all the hardware, and I doubt you’d even want it all tightly integrated for thermal reasons. Plus they’re going to need to break out PCIe buses and stuff for expansion, since the pro customers need things like uncompressed video capture cards.

Freudian slip? 

Nope, just an ordinary autocorrect typo. :p To “roll [it] across the product line” isn’t grammatically sensical anyway. It’s been a very, very long time since I’ve worked on Apple stuff professionally! (I do continue to use it, of course, including for work stuff. But I have no desire to go back to either selling or supporting computers.)

[Black Phoenix]

Maybe they could do this new thing, where they dont place the memory on the SOC. They place it on this extra PCB, and then it is possible to replace the memory. Maybe they could do this to, IDK, the SSD, the memory and the wireless. Or how about a replaceable battery pack. Or a replaceable CPU. You know instead of soldering it to the MB directly, you have some sort of mechanical way of attaching it to the MB.
So this way the laptop doesn't turn into e-waste when a 12 year old kid codes the next website in java and uses too much RAM. Do you think this would be feasible?

That’s crazy talk!

I know! But the real crazy talk is this:

Just recently I was outside my house

I know, once I was back inside I had to have a little sit in my favourite chair to calm down.

Why I'm always not able to find that kind of luck outside when I go out...