Author Topic: Make your own giant mosfet  (Read 3675 times)

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Offline ratataxTopic starter

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Make your own giant mosfet
« on: July 26, 2020, 09:20:38 am »



That video totally cracked me up  ;D
By the way don't do it..
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2020, 09:30:07 am »
Yeah that’s going to melt  :-DD
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2020, 01:16:03 pm »
I'd love to see its SOA graph!  ;D

I can't help thinking he could have got a lot more mosfets in there too (and sorted out the PCB tracks that are going to blow at 600A!)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 01:19:07 pm by Gyro »
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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2020, 03:59:19 pm »
Besides the PCB fuse traces, I see no gate resistors.
That thing's gonna have a chain-reaction explosive style style melt-down if it's asked to pass any real current....  :-BROKE

Also, how do you heatsink it properly anyway???
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2020, 04:05:52 pm »
Yeah that’s going to melt  :-DD

You bet.
Too bad the video is just about the making. Absolutely no test whatsoever to be seen. Yeah buddy, get 600 A through that and see what happens. We WANT to watch this. Wear safety glasses and don't get too close. ;D
 
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Offline Mr Evil

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2020, 04:13:11 pm »
That's actually quite cool, in a novelty giant pencil sort of way. It would have been better if the FETs were soldered directly to the aluminium tab though.
 
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Online Bud

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2020, 04:56:57 pm »
Instead of some glue logic Digikey once sent me a bag of power FETs in error . I still have them so maybe one day i will try it (after another 500 projects on tne list  ;D )

I wonder what resin the guy is using, so it does not trap air bubbles.
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Offline tooki

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2020, 05:20:35 pm »
Whatever it is, he had to leave it to cure for a year. So somehow it can’t be that good...
 

Offline PartialDischarge

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2020, 05:29:37 pm »
This guy has not heard about IGBTs...
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2020, 05:59:48 pm »
This guy has not heard about IGBTs...
Among other things, like soldering tip cleaner!
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2020, 06:13:24 pm »
That's actually quite cool, in a novelty giant pencil sort of way. It would have been better if the FETs were soldered directly to the aluminium tab though.

Everyone's cheaping out these days! You expect a package with a decent thickness copper tab get some thin....  :D


Maybe he could have re-flowed them onto a copper sheet and used decent thickness wires between the drains (TO220 packages would probably better) and possibly local resistors on each gate.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 06:15:58 pm by Gyro »
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2020, 06:21:42 pm »
This guy has not heard about IGBTs...

The "beefiest" MOSFET I've found so far is an IXYS one, spec'ed at 650V/170A max. Big package.

Yes, there are more options with IGBTs. Vishay has 600V/400A max devices, for instance. 600V/600A is really pushing it even with IGBTs. There probably are some but those are VERY expensive. Think about > $100 for ONE.
 

Offline PartialDischarge

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2020, 06:32:58 pm »
600V/600A is really pushing it even with IGBTs.

What?  :palm:

https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/power/igbt/igbt-modules/fz3600r17hp4_b2/

And there are IGBTs up to 6500V for use in multilevel topologies, like CHB or NPC
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 06:44:37 pm by MasterTech »
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2020, 07:19:44 pm »
600V/600A is really pushing it even with IGBTs.

What?  :palm:

https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/power/igbt/igbt-modules/fz3600r17hp4_b2/

This thing is actually a module made of several IGBT transistors. We were kind of talking about single transistors - at least I was - since that was compared to some DIY module made of several MOSFETs. So, that's just a module too. And that's why I mentioned one of the beefiest, yet single discrete MOSFET transistors I could find. Finding off-the-shelf, single IGBTs with those specs is harder.

And I didn't say those didn't exist. I said they were few and VERY expensive. The module you referred to is about 1500 euros. Holy crap. Even a 600V/400A single IGBT is around 100 euros or over.

So point is related to the original video, the idea of making a custom module to cut cost is not necessarily stupid. Just happened that they didn't design it properly, but paralleling several MOSFETs instead of using a huge one is relatively common, and suggesting an IGBT instead here, unless you have a very good technical reason for doing so, is debatable.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 07:23:03 pm by SiliconWizard »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2020, 07:37:24 pm »
This thing is actually a module made of several IGBT transistors. We were kind of talking about single transistors - at least I was - since that was compared to some DIY module made of several MOSFETs. So, that's just a module too. And that's why I mentioned one of the beefiest, yet single discrete MOSFET transistors I could find. Finding off-the-shelf, single IGBTs with those specs is harder.

You rapidly reach the point where it's cheaper and much higher yield for manufacturers to put multiple dies down in a package rather than a single very large die. You run into major problems with bond wires when they get too big too. Just look at an electric car inverter teardown.

The only really big die devices I know are large disk ('hockey puck') SCRs and the like, where the internal contacts to the die are made by physical device clamping pressure (they often read open circuit if not clamped into a heatsink module).

Edit: Then you start to get figures like 5000A @ 1600V!
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 07:47:29 pm by Gyro »
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2020, 07:49:33 pm »
This thing is actually a module made of several IGBT transistors. We were kind of talking about single transistors - at least I was - since that was compared to some DIY module made of several MOSFETs. So, that's just a module too. And that's why I mentioned one of the beefiest, yet single discrete MOSFET transistors I could find. Finding off-the-shelf, single IGBTs with those specs is harder.

You rapidly reach the point where it's cheaper and much higher yield for manufacturers to put multiple dies down in a package rather than a single very large die. You run into major problems with bond wires when they get too big too. Just look at an electric car inverter teardown.

Oh, that's completely right.
But still, those beefy IGBTs are fricking expensive.
 

Offline daqq

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2020, 09:09:03 pm »
MOSFET modules where you get a lot in series/parallel are a thing, but for a bit of a different target application. See:
http://www.behlke.com/separations/separation_c1.htm

For instance:
http://www.behlke.com/pdf/331-06.pdf
Note the rise time.

edit:
This thing is actually a module made of several IGBT transistors. We were kind of talking about single transistors - at least I was - since that was compared to some DIY module made of several MOSFETs. So, that's just a module too. And that's why I mentioned one of the beefiest, yet single discrete MOSFET transistors I could find. Finding off-the-shelf, single IGBTs with those specs is harder.

You rapidly reach the point where it's cheaper and much higher yield for manufacturers to put multiple dies down in a package rather than a single very large die. You run into major problems with bond wires when they get too big too. Just look at an electric car inverter teardown.

Oh, that's completely right.
But still, those beefy IGBTs are fricking expensive.

Define beefy and expensive - this fella:
https://ie.farnell.com/infineon/fz600r12ke3hosa1/transistor-igbt-module-1-2kv-900a/dp/2726202
switches over 1MW and costs around 120 EUR @ single piece. The bang per buck is insane in my opinion.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 09:14:45 pm by daqq »
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Offline Syntax Error

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2020, 09:24:04 pm »
I've thought that a thunder cloud (CuNb) works just like a giant Mosfet; with accumulation and depletion zones, and a 'gate' mechanism that allows 10,000+ amps to flow. Any semiconductor experts care to vehemently disagree in a green comic sans font?
 

Online jpanhalt

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2020, 09:28:11 pm »
Just another hideous YT "DIY" fake.  The music is even worse.   Mosfets have been paralleled since they were fist invented.  Potting them in plastic is just plain...
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2020, 10:20:34 pm »
Just another hideous YT "DIY" fake.  The music is even worse.   Mosfets have been paralleled since they were fist invented.  Potting them in plastic is just plain...
And he uses that same looped music in every single one of his videos. Oh, and the guy is Vietnamese, not American, making the channel name perplexing, too.
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2020, 01:21:19 am »
Just another hideous YT "DIY" fake.  The music is even worse.   Mosfets have been paralleled since they were fist invented.  Potting them in plastic is just plain...
And he uses that same looped music in every single one of his videos. Oh, and the guy is Vietnamese, not American, making the channel name perplexing, too.
Vietnam. The same place those fake "restoration" videos come from...
 
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Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2020, 02:38:23 am »
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Online SiliconWizard

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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2020, 02:34:53 pm »
Quote
Define beefy and expensive - this fella:
https://ie.farnell.com/infineon/fz600r12ke3hosa1/transistor-igbt-module-1-2kv-900a/dp/2726202
switches over 1MW and costs around 120 EUR @ single piece. The bang per buck is insane in my opinion.

Well, I didn't really consider this metric. But yeah, if you have to get the same switching characteristics with a number of cascaded and paralleled MOSFETs, I guess this makes sense.

Just comparing some IXYS MOSFET I mentioned (600V/170A) which costs about 30 euros per one. By your metric, that would be about 111 kW. So, by this metric, the ratio "power" over cost is about 2.25 in favor of the IGBT. ;D
 

Offline MadTux

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Re: Make your own giant mosfet
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2020, 09:43:45 pm »
What's the point? I don't get it.
Youtube 2020, solder some fricking MOSFETs into a big package, make 17min video about it and collect youtube cash?
 
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