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Man fined for criticizing govt using science, without a license
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josecamoessilva:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on April 28, 2017, 12:43:00 am ---
And that right there is what makes this whole thing an absolute joke, and anyone who tries to defend restriction on the simple vocational word "engineer" will never win.

--- End quote ---

The problem, as the history of the AMA and the ABA shows, is that first they came for the name, then they start creating restrictions, all in the name of "clarity" or "protection of the public" and eventually you get to a situation where fully-informed transactions are illegal.

Imagine that an hypothetical American Engineering Association existed with the powers of the AMA.  A non-member, Dave, possibly with a degree in EECS but not necessarily, with a long history of building electronic devices for himself and tearing down devices on YouTube, is hired by TinyStartupDotCom to help them with some circuit design. Dave discloses that he's not in the AEA, which doesn't matter to TinyStartupDotCom, so they agree to a schedule of deliverables and payments.

Meanwhile, a very outdated and incompetent engineer, Bill, who's a member of the AEA learns that he didn't get the job (due to incompetence) but a non-AEA member did. Bill tattles, Dave is fined, forbidden from selling his services even to fully informed customers, and has his breadboards confiscated, and TinyStartupDotCom has to hire Bill and his incompetence.

That's the real problem with professional organizations with legal binding power. No matter how well-meaning they start out, history (of the ABA and AMA) suggests they tend to be rent-seeking guilds protecting their members against the competition of the potentially better and cheaper outsiders.

Oh the stories I could tell...

(By the way, there's an AEA, American Economic Association, but it's like the IEEE, ACM, and AAAS, a productive not a restrictive association. Inasmuch as economists can be productive  >:D)
Tom45:
I hadn't realized that the Institute For Justice had got involved with this until Richard Crowley mentioned it.

See: http://ij.org/case/oregon-engineering-speech/

There they list a number of other examples of overreach by the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying.

Given IJ's record of success in many occupational licensing cases across the country over the years, I wouldn't want to bet against them in this case.
Rick Law:

--- Quote from: Tom45 on April 28, 2017, 03:13:05 pm ---I hadn't realized that the Institute For Justice had got involved with this until Richard Crowley mentioned it.

See: http://ij.org/case/oregon-engineering-speech/

There they list a number of other examples of overreach by the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying.

Given IJ's record of success in many occupational licensing cases across the country over the years, I wouldn't want to bet against them in this case.

--- End quote ---

Oregon being one of the more liberal jurisdictions, I would have imagined they would be more open with how people behave.  I recall this story:

"The Portland Police Bureau recommends that all riders at least wear a helmet and shoes to avoid any potential injuries. Being naked in public in Portland is legal if it falls within the guidelines of ORS 163.465" - From a Portland Police Bureau press release
(reference:https://bikeportland.org/2011/06/17/police-bureau-releases-statement-on-legality-of-naked-bike-ride-55056)

ORS is Oregon State wide, so it not just a city ordinance applying only to Portland.

Whatever is your stand on legally reserving the word "engineer", this is really schizophrenic behavior of the government bureaucrats in Oregon.  You are so free you run around naked in Oregon, yet you can't call yourself engineer.

That, in my view, shows how government bureaucrats always run wild.  After a few weeks in government, the government bureaucrats begin to think they are Gods.  Teachers led student singing songs of the praise while alive, and after they died, they get temples (train stations, airports, high schools) named after them.
james_s:
Liberal or conservative is a matter of perspective. My observation has been that it's more about which aspects of other people's lives one fixates on rather than the amount of fixation.
retrolefty:

--- Quote ---The root of the problem is that, in English, there isn't a convenient word for doing technical design without a license.  There are whole major fields (such as electronics) where licensing is simply absent, at least in the United States.  Usually the gateway requirement is a relevant college degree, but even here it is not always a necessity.
--- End quote ---

 In California worked some with a PE listed engineer at the refinery I worked at that didn't have a college/university degree in any engineering course. He was 'let in' using a 'grandfather' clause that allowed prior work experience and support of his employee to 'get the stamp'. I don't think that
clause is still applicable but I don't really know for sure.

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