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| Man fined for criticizing govt using science, without a license |
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| 4CX35000:
--- Quote from: Richard Crowley on May 05, 2017, 05:34:54 am --- --- Quote from: ez24 on May 05, 2017, 05:20:20 am ---If someone has a B.S.C.E. degree but not a P.E. are they an engineer? --- End quote --- That depends on where you are and who you ask. If you ask the state of Oregon, then no, you are not an "engineer". --- End quote --- Credential waving tends to not go far when it comes to accepting responsibility for bad decisions which result in something bad happening. Strangely at that stage these people tend to go very quiet and say nothing; or back each other up in the hope time, money, early retirement or new employment can exclude them from blame. Thankfully the term Chartered Engineer here in the UK does not stand for much in a typical engineering business and I'm not convinced it means much in government circles. In my experience of engineering it comes down to three choices. If your good at your job then you will succeed or at least keep your job, and if your bad then you walk. The third choice tends to involve nepotism which in every case I have seen has resulted in a disastrous decisions being made and the wrong individual being blamed for a decision they had little control over. |
| NiHaoMike:
--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on July 01, 2017, 12:55:00 pm ---I am not an outspoken or aggressive type driver, but a yellow light of unsafe and unjust duration will get noise from me. I've been ticketed by an automatic system before. In fact, I pulled up safely to a red light, making a complete stop, looked both ways, proceeded into the intersection and conducted a lawful right turn. Sometimes, machines make mistakes, too. (Naturally, the totally opaque "appeal process" didn't go anywhere, and I had to pay the $100.) (Also, FWIW, this was a properly set up light, with yellows of reasonable duration for traffic.) The system is usually set up illegally, or very questionably legally, so that even if you wish to challenge the ticket in court, you cannot. It is a civil fine delivered by criminal law, or vice versa, or something bizarre like that. The fine is levied by a company, not the state; and there is no agent of the state present to witness the act, so there is no accuser. Because of the combined criminal and civil aspects, no civil or criminal court can conduct a proper hearing. You'd think such bizarre constructions would default to no charge. You'd be correct: but only after paying the $200+ of court fees to have a judge see it and decide (on a case-by-case basis, never escalating to a higher level that would achieve real change) that your ticket is void. The municipality still wins. --- End quote --- What enforcement do they have? I heard that in some places, you can simply refuse to pay and they can't do anything about it. |
| T3sl4co1l:
--- Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 01, 2017, 03:18:56 pm ---What enforcement do they have? I heard that in some places, you can simply refuse to pay and they can't do anything about it. --- End quote --- That would be handy. I didn't see an obvious loophole in my case, though. Tim |
| ez24:
--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on July 01, 2017, 12:55:00 pm ---Just because you haven't driven through one, doesn't mean they don't exist. That just means you haven't seen them. Please check your selection bias before you generalize. I haven't seen them either, personally, but I know better than to boldly claim they don't exist. --- End quote --- I recently entered an intersection on a green light and it turned yellow then immediately red (less than a second on yellow). At the other end was a railroad crossing and the bars came down before I could get through the intersection. It was the train that caused the short yellow light. I was trapped in the intersection and was lucky the cross traffic was light. I had a dash cam and got the whole thing on video. I sent the video to the train company and they said they would look at it. But I have not been back to the intersection but the whole thing was a big surprise. I am sure if there had been an accident, I would have been blamed for running a light or entering on a yellow. |
| Richard Crowley:
--- Quote from: Corporate666 on June 30, 2017, 11:47:28 pm ---I travel a LOT in this country and I drive a LOT and I have never, ever, ever seen any intersection with a yellow that was such that a driver did not have sufficient time to recognize the yellow and slow at a perfectly reasonable rate of speed to a stop. I challenge anyone to point out that intersection - I wager it doesn't exist. The problem is people who want to beat the yellow but end up getting a ticket instead. --- End quote --- * SW Beaverton Hillsdale Highway at SW Griffith Drive * SW Walker Road at SW Cedar Hills Boulevard * SW Scholls Ferry Road at SW Hall Boulevard * SW Allen Boulevard at SW Lombard Avenue Ref: http://www.beavertonpolice.org/204/Photo-Enforcement These are the intersections which are the subject of this thread. All of them have been measured to have well shorter than "nominal" yellow-light periods. Where "nominal" is based on the dimensions of the intersection, the traffic volume, and the posted speed limit. That was the argument that started this whole thing. And we have literally lost count of how many times people have complained formally about this. The government (City of Beaverton) steadfastly stonewalls any discussion. Perhaps if they had been successful at grabbing the Tektronix campus into the City limits, they wouldn't be so money-grubbing today. Of course, diagonally across the intersection of SW Jenkins Rd and SW Murray Blvd. is the Nike campus. Also notably an enclave OUTSIDE the city limits. Of course cameras are not deployed at intersections with anything but high traffic volume. My GPS warns me of camera intersections. I presume that many drivers here in Washington County, Oregon simply arrange their driving routes to avoid these intersections. It is interesting to note that the camera photos are likely emailed to the corporate co-conspirator, Redflex down in Melbourne, Australia where they are "screened by Redflex personnel to ensure that they meet city standards". The scheme apparently works by "profit-sharing" between Redflex and the government agency. According to http://fireredflex.com/ethics.html the company has a reputation of many sleazy practices of colluding with governments, including several convictions for bribery up to and including the CEO. Between the automatic income stream and the sleazy reputation of the contractor, it is no wonder that the city doesn't want to discuss anything. |
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