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| SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on July 14, 2019, 10:02:49 pm ---So the act of actually forging and possessing and showing a forged document is not a crime. You even even allowed to trick people into believing it's genuine because to be a crime they must prove that you a) "to induce some person to accept it as genuine, and" gained financial advantage from it. --- End quote --- Those are interesting differences between legal systems. Ours considers the *intent* itself as a possible offence (and I think that's a general idea in our whole system), even when it has not necessarily been acted upon, whereas yours considers the actual acts leading to consequences. That's a major difference. Of course acts and bad consequences most often make the sentences much heavier in court in our system, but they are not prerequisites per se to get sentenced... |
| EEVblog:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 15, 2019, 12:34:39 pm ---Those are interesting differences between legal systems. Ours considers the *intent* itself as a possible offence (and I think that's a general idea in our whole system), even when it has not necessarily been acted upon, whereas yours considers the actual acts leading to consequences. That's a major difference. --- End quote --- We have ones that include "intent". For example, lock picking tools are technically legal to posses in NSW, but it's the intent that matters, and they (the police) have to prove or at least provide reasonable grounds to assume you have intent to commit a crime with them. --- Quote ---Crimes Act 1900 Section 114 – Being armed with intent to commit indictable offence Any person who: (a) is armed with any weapon, or instrument, with intent to commit an indictable offence, (b) has in his or her possession, without lawful excuse, any implement of housebreaking or safebreaking, or any implement capable of being used to enter or drive or enter and drive a conveyance, (c) has his or her face blackened or otherwise disguised, or has in his or her possession the means of blacking or otherwise disguising his or her face, with intent to commit an indictable offence, (d) enters or remains in or upon any part of a building or any land occupied or used in connection therewith with intent to commit an indictable offence in or upon the building, shall be liable to imprisonment for seven years. For the purposes of subsection (1) (b) “conveyance” means any cab, carriage, motor car, caravan, trailer, motor lorry, omnibus, motor or other bicycle, or any ship, or vessel, used in or intended for navigation, and “drive” shall be construed accordingly. --- End quote --- |
| splin:
--- Quote from: soldar on July 14, 2019, 03:51:58 pm ---Greece exists only so Spain cannot be the worst EU country. --- End quote --- [OT] That joke is rather like the one in a video about the English Electric Lightning I just watched in which it was said that "the only reason it has wings is to keep the nav lights apart" |
| ebastler:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on July 15, 2019, 01:17:51 pm ---We have ones that include "intent". For example, lock picking tools are technically legal to posses in NSW, but it's the intent that matters, and they (the police) have to prove or at least provide reasonable grounds to assume you have intent to commit a crime with them. --- Quote ---Crimes Act 1900 Section 114 – Being armed with intent to commit indictable offence Any person who: (a) is armed with any weapon, or instrument, with intent to commit an indictable offence, (b) has in his or her possession, without lawful excuse, any implement of housebreaking or safebreaking, or any implement capable of being used to enter or drive or enter and drive a conveyance, (c) has his or her face blackened or otherwise disguised, or has in his or her possession the means of blacking or otherwise disguising his or her face, with intent to commit an indictable offence, (d) enters or remains in or upon any part of a building or any land occupied or used in connection therewith with intent to commit an indictable offence in or upon the building, shall be liable to imprisonment for seven years. For the purposes of subsection (1) (b) “conveyance” means any cab, carriage, motor car, caravan, trailer, motor lorry, omnibus, motor or other bicycle, or any ship, or vessel, used in or intended for navigation, and “drive” shall be construed accordingly. --- End quote --- --- End quote --- Interestingly, clause (b) in the quoted section reverses the burden of proof: It's not the police who have to show, or make plausible, your intent -- but in the case of carrying lockpicks, you have to provide a "lawful excuse". |
| EEVblog:
--- Quote from: ebastler on July 15, 2019, 03:55:06 pm --- --- Quote from: EEVblog on July 15, 2019, 01:17:51 pm ---We have ones that include "intent". For example, lock picking tools are technically legal to posses in NSW, but it's the intent that matters, and they (the police) have to prove or at least provide reasonable grounds to assume you have intent to commit a crime with them. --- Quote ---Crimes Act 1900 Section 114 – Being armed with intent to commit indictable offence Any person who: (a) is armed with any weapon, or instrument, with intent to commit an indictable offence, (b) has in his or her possession, without lawful excuse, any implement of housebreaking or safebreaking, or any implement capable of being used to enter or drive or enter and drive a conveyance, (c) has his or her face blackened or otherwise disguised, or has in his or her possession the means of blacking or otherwise disguising his or her face, with intent to commit an indictable offence, (d) enters or remains in or upon any part of a building or any land occupied or used in connection therewith with intent to commit an indictable offence in or upon the building, shall be liable to imprisonment for seven years. For the purposes of subsection (1) (b) “conveyance” means any cab, carriage, motor car, caravan, trailer, motor lorry, omnibus, motor or other bicycle, or any ship, or vessel, used in or intended for navigation, and “drive” shall be construed accordingly. --- End quote --- --- End quote --- Interestingly, clause (b) in the quoted section reverses the burden of proof: It's not the police who have to show, or make plausible, your intent -- but in the case of carrying lockpicks, you have to provide a "lawful excuse". --- End quote --- Easy, carry a lock with your lock pick set. "It's a hobby officer". It's like the NSW knife laws, which interestingly has the specific clause about "burden of proof" being on the person. https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/act/1988/25/part2/div2 --- Quote ---Without limitation, it is a reasonable excuse for the purposes of this section for a person to have custody of a knife, if: (a) the custody is reasonably necessary in all the circumstances for any of the following: (i) the lawful pursuit of the person’s occupation, education or training, (ii) the preparation or consumption of food or drink, (iii) participation in a lawful entertainment, recreation or sport, (iv) the exhibition of knives for retail or other trade purposes, (v) an organised exhibition by knife collectors, (vi) the wearing of an official uniform, (vii) genuine religious purposes, or (b) the custody is reasonably necessary in all the circumstances during travel to or from or incidental to an activity referred to in paragraph (a), or (c) the custody is of a kind prescribed by the regulations. --- End quote --- I always fit two of those categories, and sometimes three. Simply have a Geocaching app on your phone and bingo, you are a Geocacher who needs the tool. Or carry a piece of fruit everywhere. I of course always have the occupation excuse. |
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