Author Topic: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.  (Read 12280 times)

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Offline MTTopic starter

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Offline Dan123456

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2023, 03:39:37 pm »
lol  :-DD

She’ll be right! I say we get them hauling fuel tankers, hazardous materials and vital medicines rather than just concrete ASAP  :P
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2023, 10:19:19 pm »
Gas vehicles are far more likely to catch fire than EVs, on the order of 7-40x more likely. Commercial trucks are disproportionally a larger percent of those fires.

https://www.warpnews.org/transportation/fewer-fires-in-electric-cars-compared-to-fossil-fueled-cars-in-the-worlds-country-with-the-highest-share-of-electric-cars/
https://rib.msb.se/filer/pdf/29438.pdf
https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/9671

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Online tom66

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2023, 11:58:25 pm »
Sigh.  Another Cardogan video where he looks at one off occurrences and concludes electrification is doomed because low-series-production vehicles are experiencing battery fires.  I mean, let's just ignore that diesel trucks do catch fire quite a bit, and that this fire really only resulted in an economic cost to the company operating it (no one died or was injured).  Despite all of this, operators are clambering like mad for electric vehicle options here.  I guess they're all deranged because every EV truck burns to the ground and no one would be stupid enough to want to use one.

Shame, I used to like the chap but he seems to have found his niche and is determined to follow it to the bitter end.
 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2023, 12:31:29 am »
Sigh.  Another Cardogan video where he looks at one off occurrences and concludes electrification is doomed because low-series-production vehicles are experiencing battery fires.  I mean, let's just ignore that diesel trucks do catch fire quite a bit, and that this fire really only resulted in an economic cost to the company operating it (no one died or was injured).  Despite all of this, operators are clambering like mad for electric vehicle options here.  I guess they're all deranged because every EV truck burns to the ground and no one would be stupid enough to want to use one.

Shame, I used to like the chap but he seems to have found his niche and is determined to follow it to the bitter end.

I never liked him.

CH7 had a disturbing tendency to find some big mouthed "Engineer" who would feed his own ego by making profound statements where a moment's reflection would reveal he was talking nonsense.

On one occasion, to supposedly reveal that people were being "ripped off" by TV service companies, instead of calling upon their own internal expertise in Electronic maintenance, they found some tame EE "off the street" to set up a "trap" for the service Techs.
To this end, he misadjusted a trimmer inside the TV (too long ago to remember which function was affected) & the butchered TV was sent to various repair shops.

They all charged a reasonable amount for finding the fault, but "big head" then pronounced they were overcharging when "all they had to do was adjust a trimmer".

Any of 7's multitude of Techs could have told them that if adjustment can "fix" a fault, & there is no obvious sign of tampering, it is foolhardy in the extreme to "just button the thing up & call it good" as the adjustment may be simply masking a real fault.

Where does the above relate to Cadogan?
Only that he was yet another of their tame "experts".

A classic was when he was lecturing everybody about distracted driving whilst spending most of his time looking at the camera as he drove.
The thing all such people seem to have in common is having a really great opinion of themselves.



 

Offline wilfred

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2023, 01:45:08 am »

Shame, I used to like the chap but he seems to have found his niche and is determined to follow it to the bitter end.
He was less annoying years ago and got to the point a bit faster. He now seems to like the sound of his own voice. Ain't nobody got time for that. He  flogged his anus joke for far too long. I didn't watch to the end though.

I was impressed he threw in exothermic early on. It shows he might think his audience would know what it meant or at least be impressed as I was.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Online EPAIII

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2023, 03:18:34 am »
That statistic may be true, but it sounds like it needs to be clarified.

One thing I would ask about is just how big the fire events were. Perhaps I am wrong, but when a gas or diesel vehicle catches fire, it can be easily extinguished. I had a fire in my gas powered truck on a highway trip and was able to put it out with the small fire extinguisher that I carried. I even had time to pull over to the shoulder of the road, get out of the truck, open the hood, observe the fire, go into the trailer to get the extinguisher, return to the truck, and put the fire out. I did this myself, with a small extinguisher. And after it cooled down, I was able to drive the truck and trailer to the next exit where repairs were made.

But, from what I have heard, it is very difficult to extinguish fires in lithium batteries. They resist conventional fire fighting methods and, as apparently happened in this truck, the fire spreads from one cell to the next and the next and the next, etc. until all or most of the cells have burned up. I don't think the driver of that cement truck was able to extinguish the fire. Nor was he able to drive it to the nearest repair shop.

And, worse yet, if the EV which catches fire is parked next to other vehicles, then the fire is probably going to be intense enough to spread to them, weather they are EV or gas or diesel powered. And the fire fighters can only sit back and watch it happen. There was a ship loaded with a mixture of vehicles, only a small percentage of which were EVs. One EV caught fire and it spread to all or almost all of the rest. There was nothing the fire fighters could do except watch from a distance.

I hate to bring up a possible doom's day situation, but there are many tall buildings where the lower levels have parking garages for the occupants' vehicles. I have worked in such buildings and parked my car in those lower levels. On 9-11 TWO skyscrapers were brought down by jet fuel fires. I can only imagine what would happen if a building with multiple floors of auto parking and a mixture of EVs and conventional fueled vehicles were to have a fire start in one of the EVs while parked in the middle of the day. They would be trying to evacuate the building THROUGH the lower floors where the fire was. And would that building be able to remain standing with the intense heat of such a fire? Or would it too fail and fall to the ground as happened on 9-11.

A conventional fire in a parked vehicle in such a building could be handled by a fire department. It may even be handled by a vehicle owner, as I did that day when my truck had a fire. But if an EV has a battery fire, what can anyone do except TRY to evacuate everyone to a safe distance?

It is not the number of fires that we need to be concerned about. It is the SEVERITY of them. And EV fires can be very, very severe. Someone needs to look into this before we have another 9-11 level disaster.



Gas vehicles are far more likely to catch fire than EVs, on the order of 7-40x more likely. Commercial trucks are disproportionally a larger percent of those fires.

https://www.warpnews.org/transportation/fewer-fires-in-electric-cars-compared-to-fossil-fueled-cars-in-the-worlds-country-with-the-highest-share-of-electric-cars/
https://rib.msb.se/filer/pdf/29438.pdf
https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/9671
Paul A.  -   SE Texas
And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
You will find that it has discrete steps.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2023, 04:02:50 am »
I hate to bring up a possible doom's day situation, but there are many tall buildings where the lower levels have parking garages for the occupants' vehicles. I have worked in such buildings and parked my car in those lower levels. On 9-11 TWO skyscrapers were brought down by jet fuel fires. I can only imagine what would happen if a building with multiple floors of auto parking and a mixture of EVs and conventional fueled vehicles were to have a fire start in one of the EVs while parked in the middle of the day. They would be trying to evacuate the building THROUGH the lower floors where the fire was. And would that building be able to remain standing with the intense heat of such a fire? Or would it too fail and fall to the ground as happened on 9-11.

This was recently discussed at our building strata meeting, speifically around allowing high capacity EV chargers in underground carparks. One of the guys is my insurance broker and he said that this is a concern in the industry but they don't really have much data on it yet, and building insurance premium haven't yet taken this into account given the relatively limited number of EV's. But this will almost certainly change.

As I understand it, there have been multiple underground carpark EV fires around the first, and AFAIK none of them have resulted in a building loss. There is ample time to evacuate people if the fire alarm systems are working.
Underground carparks are usually concrete pits and can withstand such fires without putting the building at risk. Not to mention automted fire sprinker systems that can help control the heat.
If it happens in my building, my dungeon will turn into a pool.

The twin towers was unique in that planes slammed into them. If it was just a regular fire, even if someone came in and poured jet fuel everywhere and lit it up, it's almost certain everyone would have gotten out.

Yes, the problem with EV fires is not really that they can happen, it's that they are much more difficult to control.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 04:05:05 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2023, 04:38:30 am »
I bet that  fellow carries around a lithium cell in his pocket and never worries for a second "what if this explodes".

Manufacturers are moving to LFP these days anyway, batteries are just getting safer and safer.
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Online coppercone2

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2023, 04:43:34 am »
lithium battery jackets kick ass

awesome not to be looking like the puff marshmellow man when its cold


and you know some marshmellow man probobly died when a gust of wind blew him off a bridge or into traffic because of the ridiclous aerodynamic profile of those puffy jackets, especially on slippery ice streets
« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 04:46:08 am by coppercone2 »
 
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Offline Marco

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2023, 07:42:07 am »
Perhaps I am wrong, but when a gas or diesel vehicle catches fire, it can be easily extinguished.
Just google for gas tank rupture fire.

Once all fire departments get injection spikes, extuingishing EV fires should be easy enough. Sprinklers will keep it under control regardless.

I wonder though if with good design with water cooled batteries it would really be impossible to keep a shorting cell below ignition temperature. Maybe have a compartmentalized design and increase flow to a compartment if something goes wrong? Hell, that might already be best practice for all I know.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 07:45:27 am by Marco »
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2023, 10:34:49 am »
Yes, the problem with EV fires is not really that they can happen, it's that they are much more difficult to control.

Exactly.
 

Offline .RC.

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2023, 11:21:36 am »
I thought all ICE vehicles were on fire when they are driving around.
 

Online Ice-Tea

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2023, 12:22:40 pm »
Yes, but only internally ;-)
 

Offline MTTopic starter

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2023, 12:43:45 pm »
More than 200 truck fires in NSW alone every year:
https://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/newsletters/epa-connect-newsletter/september-2022/guide-to-help-prevent-truck-fires

Not even close to the Luton car park fire, 1500 cars burned in one go, caused by one battery hybrid car! :)
 

Online tom66

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2023, 12:59:57 pm »
Not even close to the Luton car park fire, 1500 cars burned in one go, caused by one battery hybrid car! :)

... a "hybrid" whose registration plate mysteriously comes back to a 3 litre diesel non-hybrid, and for which the fire departments have been clear was a conventional car, and a model for which recalls have been issued already due to fire risk, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good story! 
 
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Offline Gyro

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2023, 01:20:40 pm »
Yes, I remember the BBC news reports - It was a Diesel (not even more volatile petrol). The guy's a dick.
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline MTTopic starter

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2023, 06:35:49 pm »
... a "hybrid" whose registration plate mysteriously comes back to a 3 litre diesel non-hybrid, and for which the fire departments have been clear was a conventional car, and a model for which recalls have been issued already due to fire risk, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good story!

You do know Auto Expert Cadogan is always right, and cant be questioned! :D
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2023, 06:41:15 pm »
Maybe he needs to be relegated to the Dodgy Technology section in future.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline u666sa

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2023, 07:44:41 pm »
Man. When it comes to cement, the idea is cheap. Cheap but quality. I don't see how using this thing will make things cheaper.  :-/O
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2023, 07:59:54 pm »
the teamsters 'union' must have lit it on fire :-X
 

Offline MTTopic starter

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2023, 08:06:02 pm »
Yes, I remember the BBC news reports - It was a Diesel (not even more volatile petrol). The guy's a dick.

Come on now ..... Cadongan is not a dick .... he's just a little tiny bit "annoying"!  :D
Only Brittons work them selfs up over their Aussie cousins having a point or two in the EV tradgedy drama.
Heeey, here is another cousin!


 

Online coppercone2

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2023, 08:18:34 pm »
people need to try driving EV, their just better. gasoline is horse and buggy and feels like it! stretchy cars. I feel like its those people warning me against the first Lion power drills (mid 2000's makita), which ended up utterly kicking ass. In the early 2000's there was down right prosecution against my makita drill acquisiton.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Massive EV cement truck fire: official 'explanation' versus the facts.
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2023, 08:29:13 pm »
Yes, I remember the BBC news reports - It was a Diesel (not even more volatile petrol). The guy's a dick.

Come on now ..... Cadongan is not a dick .... he's just a little tiny bit "annoying"!  :D
Only Brittons work them selfs up over their Aussie cousins having a point or two in the EV tradgedy drama.
Heeey, here is another cousin!

[vid links removed]

Hey, I'm not bringing nationality into it - although now you come to mention it, he does have a really annoying accent (can't think where I've heard one like it before?). :D
What makes him a dick is posting a half hour video on something either without bothering to check his basic facts, or knowing that they are wrong, first.
Sorry, I ain't going to waste my time watching another 'cousin'.


P.S. I'm not pro or anti EV. I drive a hybrid, which seems to work fine most of the time.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 08:52:18 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 


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