Author Topic: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?  (Read 4794 times)

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Offline maconaTopic starter

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Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« on: July 12, 2021, 11:46:50 am »
Picked up this old vacuum tube, its rather large. I think it might be a diode, look like 3 terminals, the base, ring, and what I am guessing is the anode. The base and ring are electrically connected together with a very low resistance so I think that is the heater. The "anode" is hollow so I am guessing water was flowed though it to keep it cool, or maybe just for surface area and save on weight and material.

I think the getter pump on the side was added, this came from a glass display at a local university.

Anyone seen anything like it? The cutting mat it is on is 1" increments and 1/2 squares. So about 21" long

Old vacuum tube by Jerry Biehler, on Flickr
 

Offline gbaddeley

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2021, 12:21:38 pm »
Thyratron or Mercury Rectifier? A Triode of this size would have a ceramic or metal case, not glass.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 12:23:34 pm by gbaddeley »
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Offline Stray Electron

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2021, 01:38:44 pm »
A rectifier tube would be my guess.  Look closely and see if you don't see some tiny drops of mercury in it.
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2021, 01:41:02 pm »
My guess is something for radar use.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2021, 03:18:37 pm »
What's the extra bulb thing, is that kind of behind, is it really connected..?

A few more angles also showing inside the electrode structure maybe, might be informative.

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Offline LaserSteve

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2021, 07:04:29 pm »
Mousey Grey at the glass to metal seals means matched seal and borosilicate or hard glass.   It thus  is WWII or later and handled a lot of power.  The two yellow-green sections in the remote bulb are "Canary" aka uranium glass, aka type 3030 and means the body of the tube is something like 7052 or 7056  aluminosilicate to match to the Kovar sealing metal. The switch to Pyrex for the fill stem is because Aluminosilicate is the devil to work with, as it tends to devitrify when heated hot enough to use as a sealing stem.

The coiled coil filament on it's tungsten lead throughs  is more then likely used as a pressure gauge.  Not a getter.

Steve
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 07:14:34 pm by LaserSteve »
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Offline maconaTopic starter

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2021, 08:47:56 pm »
Only three terminals so it can't be a thyratron. No signs of mercury, I have some largish mercury rectifiers so I have seen those. The bulb on the side is either a getter or a titanium sublimation pump. Not sure which, it is used to compensate for any outgassing. Either by evaporating a reactive metal on the wall which the gasses left react with or the titanium sublimates when heated and it traps gasses when it condenses on the walls.

Cleaned it up and took few more pics, real hard to make stuff out due to the distortions from the glass.

Untitled by Jerry Biehler, on Flickr

Untitled by Jerry Biehler, on Flickr

Untitled by Jerry Biehler, on Flickr

Untitled by Jerry Biehler, on Flickr
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2021, 10:26:24 pm »
The ring and odd shape suggests some sort of resonator for UHF use, like a klystron or such.

There are no identifying marks at all? Not even a makers mark?
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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2021, 11:07:19 pm »
University is interesting; could well be a modified (or brand new, but maybe not given the intricate shapes?) bit of apparatus from the physics department.  Don't suppose you have contact with any faculty..?

Tim
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Offline LaserSteve

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2021, 12:02:37 am »
Are there two long slits in the Anode? Early VHF magnetron comes to mind.

It is possible to have a cold cathode large thyratron too.   The trick is to fill the hollow cathode base with silica dust and impregnate it with potassium.   Then you get a self healing cathode.  That method never caught on, expect in some pulsed lasers.


 But the TSP drives this toward vacuum operation.

Ask on radiomuseum.com

Steve
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 12:10:06 am by LaserSteve »
"When in doubt, check the Byte order of the Communications Protocol, By Hand, On an Oscilloscope"

Quote from a co-inventor of the PLC, whom i had the honor of working with recently.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2021, 12:28:47 am »
it defiantly looks like a physics project, universities have glass blowing departments, you would not get that oblong easy to break side piece with a commercial product, or a military product for that matter, they want things to ship nicely

I think its something to let plasma go through the side piece and maybe measure it with something, maybe a current probe?

that glass structure is used for convection often, or circulation, its common in a passive circulation oil melting point tester (the circulation is a temperature control, a passive flow network) and a dean stark apparatus. Can it be something for looking at plasma turbulance/dynamics? You can also heat the side tube. not sure what that would do, its very interesting. I think if you put a flame on that side tube and there was gas inside it would start going around in a circle, at least if it was normal gas



always wanted to work on that kind of stuff
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 12:35:19 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline maconaTopic starter

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2021, 12:32:37 am »
I do know some people in the faculty there but this predates everyone there.

No marks that I can find anywhere. I looked all over.

Dont see any slits in it either.

Yeah, I was thinking of asking the guys over at radiomuseum but figured I would give it a try here. If nothing else it is neat to look at. Ill just make a display stand for it.
 

Offline maconaTopic starter

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2021, 12:35:05 am »
Im pretty sure the pump sidearm was added, they did have a glassblowing shop but the parts in this are spun and stamped metal which is a but much for a university experiment.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2021, 12:37:17 am »
keep in mind this looks like 40's or 50's tech, its when people were proud of their work, open ended non commercial research was allowed, etc (think Bell labs)

professors used to actually work on research instead of being grant raising enterpenurs trying not to get shut down by commercial business interests. it was also the golden age of being proud of machining. I think the main focus of a professor now is to put subliminal messages in the abstract.  :-DD

I think then they would have said "make that thing good so we can study it deep into the future for the benefit of this university in case the blue print gets lost" and now the department dean would come running along asking if you can perform a simulation to prove an obvious concept instead, and to please not use the printer. I have something related to him pestering the designer for some thing machining cost related in mind but its too complicated and elaborate a joke so I will leave it at that.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 12:45:19 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2021, 12:55:07 am »
The two leads going to the coil in the side compartment--where are they connected?

Can you show where the tubes from that side compartment are connected?  I think the fact that there are two tubes is interesting.  If it were just a getter or TSP chamber, I don't think you'd need 2.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline maconaTopic starter

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2021, 12:55:22 am »
Oh, I realize that, my lathe is from that time period. But there are just parts here that scream production pieces to me. Plus this is a very small school, even smaller back then and I have seen a lot of their other glasswork and brought some of it home and non if it is anything like this.

Sent a message over to radiomuseum, we will see if they respond. Crossing my fingers.
 

Offline maconaTopic starter

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2021, 12:59:38 am »
The TSP has a extra tubulation for evacuation, there is only one connection to the main tube.

Untitled by Jerry Biehler, on Flickr
 

Offline LaserSteve

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2021, 01:05:37 am »
The thing that screams prototype is the ring
of screws in the base. That is one massive virtual leak waiting to happen. I work at a university, two of our more senior machinists regularly make stuff like that.
Now if a certain admin wanna-be hadn't ordered the destruction of our induction heating and hydrogen furnace systems  system I'd be making stuff like that.

Steve
"When in doubt, check the Byte order of the Communications Protocol, By Hand, On an Oscilloscope"

Quote from a co-inventor of the PLC, whom i had the honor of working with recently.
 

Offline LaserSteve

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2021, 01:13:33 am »
If I have to guess a brand, Machlett Labs used to make tubes with similar hallmarks.

Steve
"When in doubt, check the Byte order of the Communications Protocol, By Hand, On an Oscilloscope"

Quote from a co-inventor of the PLC, whom i had the honor of working with recently.
 

Offline bsfeechannel

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2021, 01:53:58 am »
Oh, I realize that, my lathe is from that time period. But there are just parts here that scream production pieces to me. Plus this is a very small school, even smaller back then and I have seen a lot of their other glasswork and brought some of it home and non if it is anything like this.

Sent a message over to radiomuseum, we will see if they respond. Crossing my fingers.

You can also try this guy. He claims to have a collection of more than 4000 lamps and tubes. In fact I found a tube that is very similar in shape to yours, i.e., it has two opposite electrodes, two glass bulbs, and a middle ring.



According to its datasheet, it is used to "decouple the receiver from a common transmitting and receiving antenna during a period of transmission".
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2021, 01:59:47 am »
Could it be X-ray related?
 

Offline LaserSteve

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2021, 02:44:28 am »
I'm down to a  hf/vhf TR/ATR tube or a large Kenotron or Hard Rectifier.  May I see a picture or two of the base?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 02:57:09 am by LaserSteve »
"When in doubt, check the Byte order of the Communications Protocol, By Hand, On an Oscilloscope"

Quote from a co-inventor of the PLC, whom i had the honor of working with recently.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2021, 03:00:51 am »
Oh, I realize that, my lathe is from that time period. But there are just parts here that scream production pieces to me. Plus this is a very small school, even smaller back then and I have seen a lot of their other glasswork and brought some of it home and non if it is anything like this.

Sent a message over to radiomuseum, we will see if they respond. Crossing my fingers.

You can also try this guy. He claims to have a collection of more than 4000 lamps and tubes. In fact I found a tube that is very similar in shape to yours, i.e., it has two opposite electrodes, two glass bulbs, and a middle ring.



According to its datasheet, it is used to "decouple the receiver from a common transmitting and receiving antenna during a period of transmission".

Already looked there, nothing matches.

I agree it is a prototype, but who made it and for what purpose remains to be seen.

The constuction is very odd, seeming to be a mishmash of different tubes. I still think it is some form of RF diode or oscillator. It's not a cold cathode thyratron, two terminals have continuity, and the OP says there is no mercury pool. It is possible it's some weird reflex klystron. I don't think it's a kenotron or other very high voltage rectifier, there does not seem to be enough of a gap, a high current rectifier seems more likely if that's the case.

The little bulb could be a titanium getter as suggested. They may have intended to melt it off once evacuated but found tiny leaks so left it on to keep it from getting gassy.

Try applying a bit of power to the small filament. That might tell us if the tube is gassy or not.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 03:04:40 am by Cyberdragon »
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Offline LaserSteve

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2021, 03:04:55 am »
Gently remove the Faraday Mixture, which is Pitch, Beeswax, and Iron Oxide or Copper Oxide and look for a part#.
The Faraday Mix is a remarkable vacuum sealant used in the days B.E. [Before Epoxy].

Any testing may make it valueless to a collector.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 03:07:26 am by LaserSteve »
"When in doubt, check the Byte order of the Communications Protocol, By Hand, On an Oscilloscope"

Quote from a co-inventor of the PLC, whom i had the honor of working with recently.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: Massive old vacuum tube, anyone know what it is?
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2021, 04:03:20 am »
Oh, if its not looped around its not a flow thing

however a flow thing would be interesting in some kind of gas tube
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 04:05:26 am by coppercone2 »
 


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