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| 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts |
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| james_s:
--- Quote from: ejeffrey on July 06, 2020, 10:00:18 pm ---All of those are using black to refer to the color rather than value. --- End quote --- Yes, it's called context, see how that works? Likewise a blacklist or whitelist is a list of things that are banned or allowed, it has no relation whatsoever to the amount of melanin in a person's skin. A blacklist does not refer to black people, nor does a whitelist refer to white people. Context, it's important. |
| Nominal Animal:
Kjelt, I know that sounds a good idea, but there are serious repercussions that are not immediately obvious. You see, Finnish police and Finnish media decided a few years ago to do just that. (The police even stopped gathering and publishing statistics on ethnicities of criminals for exactly this reason.) There have been cases where a suspect has been able to leave the country, because police refused to post the picture of the suspect because their skin color or ethnic origin would have been detectable. We have also had our own child grooming rings that were left to operate for years because the police assumed the reports were racist, and refused to investigate. Because of this, we have a stark divide in Finland. One group assumes that whenever the details are not told, it is because the suspect is an immigrant; that there is a faction that wants to hide the crimes immigrants commit. The other group assumes that any complaints about immigrant behaviour are just racist hate speech, because there are none in the media. (The media here avoids publishing crimes if the suspects or perpetrators are immigrant or of a non-Finn ethnicity. The only media that does, is labeled "far right".) It does not work, not here at least. This only creates a divide, and helps nobody. The ones who get hurt by this most, are the hardworking immigrants who do pay their taxes and abide by the law. The ones who benefit, are the ones who have no intention of conforming to local law: they get a free pass just by shouting "racist!". One half of the nation believes them, and calls the other half racist, while nobody does a thing to fix the underlying issues. (And the ones whose ideology claims that immigrants only commit crime because of oppression, do not need to consider the evidence otherwise, so politicians in particular are happy.) Hiding information, with the idea that "the public does not need to know", only makes things worse. Finland is an excellent example of this. We don't really have any traditional newsmedia left; the ones we have are all opinion writers, and fully believe their role is to be the gatekeeper of potentially harmful information. The 56% of Finns that does trust traditional media, are the ones with the same opinions as the writers. No, I believe openness and educating kids about other people and cultures works, but this avoid-mentioning-details-that-might-be-misused does not. At all. |
| SilverSolder:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 07, 2020, 12:28:26 am ---Kjelt, I know that sounds a good idea, but there are serious repercussions that are not immediately obvious. You see, Finnish police and Finnish media decided a few years ago to do just that. (The police even stopped gathering and publishing statistics on ethnicities of criminals for exactly this reason.) There have been cases where a suspect has been able to leave the country, because police refused to post the picture of the suspect because their skin color or ethnic origin would have been detectable. We have also had our own child grooming rings that were left to operate for years because the police assumed the reports were racist, and refused to investigate. Because of this, we have a stark divide in Finland. One group assumes that whenever the details are not told, it is because the suspect is an immigrant; that there is a faction that wants to hide the crimes immigrants commit. The other group assumes that any complaints about immigrant behaviour are just racist hate speech, because there are none in the media. (The media here avoids publishing crimes if the suspects or perpetrators are immigrant or of a non-Finn ethnicity. The only media that does, is labeled "far right".) It does not work, not here at least. This only creates a divide, and helps nobody. The ones who get hurt by this most, are the hardworking immigrants who do pay their taxes and abide by the law. The ones who benefit, are the ones who have no intention of conforming to local law: they get a free pass just by shouting "racist!". One half of the nation believes them, and calls the other half racist, while nobody does a thing to fix the underlying issues. (And the ones whose ideology claims that immigrants only commit crime because of oppression, do not need to consider the evidence otherwise, so politicians in particular are happy.) Hiding information, with the idea that "the public does not need to know", only makes things worse. Finland is an excellent example of this. We don't really have any traditional newsmedia left; the ones we have are all opinion writers, and fully believe their role is to be the gatekeeper of potentially harmful information. The 56% of Finns that does trust traditional media, are the ones with the same opinions as the writers. No, I believe openness and educating kids about other people and cultures works, but this avoid-mentioning-details-that-might-be-misused does not. At all. --- End quote --- What's really wrong with the principle "everyone is equal before the law", there should be no rules making any group different... that is in itself racist and/or unfair to one group or another, in most instances. |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 07, 2020, 12:28:26 am ---We have also had our own child grooming rings that were left to operate for years because the police assumed the reports were racist, and refused to investigate. --- End quote --- Although the authorities have been very evasive with the UK public, its quite clear that a considerable number of people with the power to act knew exactly what was (and still appears to be) going on with the UK grooming gangs. Sadly, their highest priority appears to have been avoiding being tagged as racists themselves. |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on July 07, 2020, 01:10:01 am ---What's really wrong with the principle "everyone is equal before the law", there should be no rules making any group different... that is in itself racist and/or unfair to one group or another, in most instances. --- End quote --- Nothing (IMHO) however it comes down to the same old argument of equality of opportunity/treatment vs equality of outcome. A percentage of the population is devout in their view that the tail should wag the dog and as with most things that are based on a belief, no amount of logic, evidence, reason or statistics will change their mind, in many cases they will just accuse you of being racist to silence you if you even question their assertion. |
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