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'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
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madires:

--- Quote from: lukego on June 12, 2020, 01:23:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on June 12, 2020, 01:06:50 pm ---Which "other people" "don't feel comfortable in the EEVblog community"?

--- End quote ---

I'm not sure how to respond to that. Are you literally asking me to name people who have told me that they don't feel comfortable in this community?

--- End quote ---

Please don't! Don't embarrass users for what they have told you. Just summarize why they don't feel comfortable.
SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 12, 2020, 12:13:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: lukego on June 12, 2020, 09:12:39 am ---I've worked on products that used master/slave terminology. I'm bothered that those products have been sold in places where those terms have strong connotations like southern USA. I don't like the idea of (say) a black person in Georgia having to talk about "masters" and "slaves" in project management meetings with their white bosses. That just seems gratuitously unpleasant. That image in my mind is why I won't choose the terms master/slave when building things in the future.
--- End quote ---
Do you realize that when doing so, you're actually not eradicating racism, but perpetuating it?  You are not being thoughtful, you are just enforcing the association between slaves and black people.  Every time you carefully avoid using those terms, you are expressing the association between "black", "slave", and "master".

--- End quote ---

I agree, making this association actually emphasizes the matter.

Not only that, but I actually know very few black people who are offended by those words. They are offended when they are being insulted or belittled. Master and slave are not insults. If anything, many of them actually wouldn't want those words, and even more so, what they historically mean to disappear, as they certainly wouldn't want their past history to be forgotten.

But using the words isn't going to bring back slavery, not any more that not using them will ensure it will never come back. This is just completely off.
And as I said earlier, Newspeak is not going to help. Impoverishing language is never going to make the world any better. I'm not sure of much, but I'm pretty convinced of this one.
pepelevamp:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 12, 2020, 01:53:23 pm ---But using the words isn't going to bring back slavery, not any more that not using them will ensure it will never come back. This is just completely off.
And as I said earlier, Newspeak is not going to help. Impoverishing language is never going to make the world any better. I'm not sure of much, but I'm pretty convinced of this one.

--- End quote ---

I think this is a second and equally valid perspective of what I tried to describe above. Looking at the master/slave jumpers on a SPI device and thinking 'gee I should hide these words' instead of thinking 'gee I should fix problems this reminds me of'.

I think our hearts are in the right place already. I'm sure your heart is in the right place already. This is kind of like looking at curved designed in the wallpaper when you're 14 and thinking it makes a pretty good set of boobs. There are problems in society and we should fix society. Then we can look at our SPI devices & not be concerned.

Our concerns are about the atrocities in society. Normalizing neonazis and fascism doens't come from SPI & ATA terminology. And it is certainly nowhere near what people should focus their efforts on if you are even slightly concerned about nazis. Anymore than crime being increased from the use of chroot jails.

If you want to fix nazis - go after fox news, trump, misinformation merchants, lying politicians, data mining platforms and gun-shows. Hate rallys are not full of semiconductor vendors.
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: lukego on June 12, 2020, 01:23:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on June 12, 2020, 01:06:50 pm ---Which "other people" "don't feel comfortable in the EEVblog community"?

--- End quote ---

I'm not sure how to respond to that. Are you literally asking me to name people who have told me that they don't feel comfortable in this community? Or are you implying that there are no such people and I am spinning a yarn because I have an axe to grind (if you'll excuse a mixed metaphor)?

--- End quote ---

Your statement about "other people" and "not feeling comfortable" surprises me. I have not noticed anything like that, except that which has already been commented upon and moderated appropriately (thanks!).

So, what evidence is there to support your statement ? If statements are public, you can provide links. If privately to you, then why you and what is the substance of their complaints?

Without that basic information nothing can be done and nothing should be done.
lukego:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on June 12, 2020, 02:13:57 pm ---Without that basic information nothing can be done and nothing should be done.

--- End quote ---

I'm glad we settled this, then.
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