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'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

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Cerebus:

--- Quote from: wraper on June 15, 2020, 02:48:37 am ---
--- Quote from: Cerebus on June 15, 2020, 01:46:38 am ---Nice strawman, where did you get him?

--- End quote ---
There is no strawman. Look into PDF I linked. 2 out of 3 pictures from google, they are only for presentation purposes. Again look into that PDF before claiming strawman. About particularly killings by police, you could simply google for numbers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/
http://www.cjcj.org/news/8113
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man ---A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, meanwhile the proper idea of argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.[2][3] Straw man arguments have been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly regarding highly charged emotional subjects.

--- End quote ---

I said that the immediate issue was that there was a long well documented history of the American police murdering black people, not what words were used that might (at a stretch) have offensive connotations.

You set up the strawman that this has something to do with blacks committing the majority of crimes.

Even if true, that has nothing to do with the documented murders of black people by American "peace" officers - hence it is a strawman argument. Do you not have a grandmother, did she not teach you that "two wrongs don't make a right"?

Cerebus:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 15, 2020, 10:51:58 am ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on June 14, 2020, 10:49:28 pm ---By the way, Nominal Animal, does "orjapiiskuri" literally mean "overseer" or "supervisor" in Finnish?
--- End quote ---
No, 'orjapiiskuri' = slave-whipper.
Overseer = 'valvoja': inspector, observer; also one who does not sleep.
Supervisor = 'ohjaaja': instructor, pilot/driver (for a vehicle), guide.
Leader = 'johtaja': leader, conductor, manager; the one in front.
Master's degree = 'maisteri', from "magister degree".
Master = 'mestari', as in best at something, or champion.
The closest word to master as in master/slave context, is probably 'isäntä', which is a derivative of 'isä', father, and means host/householder/landlord.  There is a female variant, 'emäntä', a derivative of 'emä', the root word for mother – although 'äiti' is nowadays used for humans, and 'emä' for animals – which means the same thing.  Both are a bit archaic, though, and mostly used when someone hosts an event or such.
When men were hired to work at a farm, they were called 'renki'; women hired for household tasks, 'piika'.

I do not think I've ever met a household servant myself.

--- End quote ---

English, used properly, is a very expressive language. Unfortunately it gains a lot of its expressive power from context sensitivity. That has led to English overloading words with multiple meanings that have to be divined from context.

"Master" is one such word - it can have the connotation of being accomplished at something "master of one's trade", of being in charge of something or someone "the master of the Queen's music", "the master of the household", "the master of the ship", an original or primary copy of something "master recording", "master mould", a person with a higher degree "master's degree" and as the formal pronoun for a young man "Master Smith" (cf Mister Smith).

Six meanings for one word, not strictly including the sense of master/slave as in flip-flops. That leads me to wonder aloud: "Does this mean that the people complaining about the use of 'master' in the technical sense are just not very good at English comprehension?".

fcb:
Genuinely interested in what terms we should use in systems to replace MASTER/SLAVE?

What terminology are the big boys (Keysight/Tek etc..) using? What accurately conveys the relationship between equipment or parts of a system?

What about appropriating BDSM terminology, surely that won’t offend anyone – DOM/SUB? Or perhaps just change to MASTER/SERVANT.

Could black and white lists be changed to RED and GREEN, or do they have other meanings in computing?

Cerebus:

--- Quote from: tooki on June 15, 2020, 11:37:56 am ---Law enforcement in USA is too rotten to be saved. It needs a total reboot.

--- End quote ---

It's not undoable. It may have passed most of the world by that the Royal Ulster Constabulary in Northern Ireland was completely disbanded and replaced by the Police Service of Northern Ireland for very similar reasons. There was an issue with entrenched Protestant/Catholic discrimination (in the peculiar Northern Irish meaning of Protestant/Catholic) within the RUC that could not be adequately addressed with less drastic measures.

GlennSprigg:

--- Quote from: nuclearcat on June 15, 2020, 12:46:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on June 15, 2020, 12:32:08 pm ---Yes, I'm not a U.S. resident, but the World sees all the news for years, especially as there is much more body-cam
footage nowdays, and personal filming, and countless vid-clips on the likes of Youtube that we all see. And it's
disgusting, though we are generally much more peaceful here in Australia.  American police stop...
Guns drawn. "Step out with your hands in the air. Walk backwards to me. Do not reach for anything. Now get
face down on the ground!!"  Other gun(s) on any passengers...
Same scenario in Aussie Land...
Police walk up to the driver. No guns drawn... "Bloody hell mate, what the hell were you doing back there!! That
was a bit dangerous. May I see your license please". 
They're not ALL perfect, but no-one (generally) gets 'accidentally' killed!!  :D

--- End quote ---
Major difference is - in US guns are legal and often people carry them, so police expect any civilian might draw the gun and shoot, using legal gun this civilian own, just because he have mental issues today.
And i think this is major reason of police violence. Easy to die, but easy to pull the trigger by mistake as well, as stakes are high from point zero.

--- End quote ---

We do actually understand that here in Australia. However, I think I was agonizing over bringing
the 'Gun' debate into the conversation... Sorry!!   ;D  Which unfortunately is 'part' of the original
problem!  If 'VIRTUALLY' no-one has/uses guns on the street, then the 'Police' would not have to
be so pro-active in 'using' (warranted or not) equal deadly force in the majority of confrontations!   ::)
It SURPRISES us mere Aussies, when like after the Sandy Creek Massacre, the damn NRA has the ignorance to
recommend MORE guns, in Schools!! (Fight with might). If only .001% of 'thugs' the Police pulled over or dared
to question, had a gun, they wouldn't even need a fucking 'Taser', let alone a .38 in the back. Now there are
15-20% more guns in the U.S. than 'People'!!  I'm sorry, but they don't see the 'Forrest' for the 'Trees' ??  ???
YES!!! there are a lot of asshole Cops there, but no guns means no shooting back!!

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