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'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
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james_s:

--- Quote from: SkyMaster on June 16, 2020, 01:00:14 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on June 15, 2020, 11:30:01 pm ---We don’t need police arresting people for jaywalking, selling individual cigarettes, etc. We don’t need police intervening with the mentally ill, who need mental health specialists, not cops. This is all pretty basic stuff...

--- End quote ---

It is pretty basic stuff for arm chair police officer.

 :)

--- End quote ---

If you don't want people arrested for jaywalking (does that even happen? I thought it was a ticket) or selling cigarettes (no idea of the laws around those, I don't smoke) don't blame the police, change the laws. The police exist to enforce the laws, they don't write them. Don't shoot the messenger, go and get the message changed. Changes don't happen quickly enough for some people but that's life. The system responds slowly to input by design, like any control loop it has to be critically damped or it slams from one extreme to another which is precisely what we're seeing start to happen in recent years.
DimitriP:

--- Quote --- don't blame the police, change the laws. The police exist to enforce the laws, they don't write them. Don't shoot the messenger, go and get the message changed.
--- End quote ---
The message cannot be changed.  Each message is crafted to keep people either supportinve or angry, upset and polarized so they can keep supporting and contributing to the change of the message.
About half the people don't like message A and the other half don't like message B,
and round and round we go.
Slaming from one side to the other.


james_s:

--- Quote from: DimitriP on June 16, 2020, 03:51:11 am ---The message cannot be changed.  Each message is crafted to keep people either supportinve or angry, upset and polarized so they can keep supporting and contributing to the change of the message.
About half the people don't like message A and the other half don't like message B,
and round and round we go.
Slaming from one side to the other.

--- End quote ---

That's not quite what I was referring to. By "message" I meant the law. If you don't like the law then get the law changed, don't blame the police for enforcing the law. Changing the law is not easy and it's not fast, but there is a process by which it to do it and the process works. No matter what is done it's not possible to please everyone, the best we can do is compromise in a way that a majority are content with.
Jeroen3:
O, 5 new pages overnight. That I can't keep up with.
tooki:

--- Quote from: james_s on June 16, 2020, 03:30:48 am ---
--- Quote from: SkyMaster on June 16, 2020, 01:00:14 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on June 15, 2020, 11:30:01 pm ---We don’t need police arresting people for jaywalking, selling individual cigarettes, etc. We don’t need police intervening with the mentally ill, who need mental health specialists, not cops. This is all pretty basic stuff...

--- End quote ---

It is pretty basic stuff for arm chair police officer.

 :)

--- End quote ---

If you don't want people arrested for jaywalking (does that even happen? I thought it was a ticket) or selling cigarettes (no idea of the laws around those, I don't smoke) don't blame the police, change the laws. The police exist to enforce the laws, they don't write them. Don't shoot the messenger, go and get the message changed. Changes don't happen quickly enough for some people but that's life. The system responds slowly to input by design, like any control loop it has to be critically damped or it slams from one extreme to another which is precisely what we're seeing start to happen in recent years.

--- End quote ---
Well, they end up getting arrested or shot for jaywalking because of the ensuing interaction with the police, not the actual jaywalking itself. Sorry, I wasn’t clear on that.

I do agree on needing to change laws. But I disagree on the police being the sole enforcers of laws. We don’t send police to write parking tickets. We don’t send police to enforce unpaid bills. There are gazillions of laws that are enforced by other means, and what the “defund the police” people are saying is that we need to reduce the police (both in their size, but also in their scope of responsibilities) and provide better ways to enforce the rules that aren’t violent crimes.
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