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'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
james_s:
People get caught up in left vs right but honestly I think the issue is people on the fringes who think with their emotions rather than being pragmatic. This thread is already too political IMHO but I am increasingly disenfranchised with both sides, it seems people are ever more polarized and obsess over wedge issues. Growing up my dad was a republican and my mom a democrat, somehow that never seemed to be such a big issue in the past. People would agree on some things and disagree on others but I never really knew the sort of people who's entire life seems to revolve around their political identity as seems to be so common today. There's more than one way to accomplish any goal and rejecting any solution that is not ideologically pure is a sure path to failure. In almost any issue both sides have valid points and both sides are full of crap in some respect.
magic:
--- Quote from: Cerebus on June 16, 2020, 02:14:13 pm ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on June 16, 2020, 12:18:06 pm ---I am unable to tell if @magic is being satirical here or not, when talking about toxic masculinity and code.
--- End quote ---
Satirical? Probably not. Check his postings in general and you'll find he often enjoys stirring the shit.
--- End quote ---
There are people who take it seriously whether I do or not.
Besides, it is my honest opinion that software is more repulsive to women than it strictly needs to be, but meh.
--- Quote from: nuclearcat on June 16, 2020, 12:31:57 pm ---Something tells me that they need assistance of a psychologist/psychotherapist, and not imitatation of help to them, by changing few words and letters.
--- End quote ---
I'm just parroting the SJWs, no need to tell me that.
Besides, you completely miss the point. America's problem is simple: there are Americans hell bent on having nothing to do with races other than their own and there are Americans hell bent on forcing the former to integrate against their will. Everything Americans say is propaganda meant at achieving either of those goals and concerns like truth or consistency are secondary. If you don't parrot one side's points they invariably assume you support the other. It's a war.
It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you. That being said, software industry is full of leftists so if they feel oppressed by software then it might be paranoia. I stay out of America glad that it's not my problem, besides the occasional Internet drama.
--- Quote from: tooki on June 16, 2020, 06:47:29 pm ---The left understands that individuals are NEVER independent. All of us live within societies, and thus benefit from them, but also owe some responsibility toward them. The right lives under the illusion that societal support doesn’t exist, as though opportunities arose in total isolation, which they don’t.
--- End quote ---
Only the craziest of libertarians would argue that. More often it is: skepticism in the left's ability to achieve (including but absolutely not limited to, the ability to gather enough funds and support), not giving rat's ass in the first place, not having money for the ever expanding grandiosity of the left. The left used to be the plebs' party, today the plebs vote right, guess why.
And then there are those special "right" wingers who would want to build societal support structures and you wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Be careful what you wish for :P
Cerebus:
--- Quote from: james_s on June 16, 2020, 11:28:35 pm ---People get caught up in left vs right but honestly I think the issue is people on the fringes who think with their emotions rather than being pragmatic. This thread is already too political IMHO but I am increasingly disenfranchised with both sides, it seems people are ever more polarized and obsess over wedge issues. Growing up my dad was a republican and my mom a democrat, somehow that never seemed to be such a big issue in the past. People would agree on some things and disagree on others but I never really knew the sort of people who's entire life seems to revolve around their political identity as seems to be so common today. There's more than one way to accomplish any goal and rejecting any solution that is not ideologically pure is a sure path to failure. In almost any issue both sides have valid points and both sides are full of crap in some respect.
--- End quote ---
Let's be clear, most ordinary folks are sick to the back teeth with "both sides" in just about every western democracy. Politicians are increasingly people who have never had a "proper job", if they haven't been in politics since the start of their careers then they have been in some "bullshit job" (one where the principal requirement is to bullshit all the time: marketing, lobbyist, dare I say lawyers). As James says, the 'modern' move to dealing with any issue in a way that rejects all but party doctrine and polarizes every bloody issue rather than ever apply common sense, or ever admit a failure (especially a failure caused by following doctrine) is deeply disheartening.
A case in point is the "broken windows" doctrine of policing. It didn't work. It was a dismal failure. It made things worse. Nobody responsible will admit that and rather than own up, apologise, rethink and do something else the doctrine was still declared to be sound and the fools 'doubled down' on the policy and went in harder. Even after watching it fail in the US, people of the same political stripe as the policy's US originators in other countries started advocating it. One of the outcomes of "broken windows" policing was to further alienate minorities and that brings us right back to where we were, with the current appalling state of race relations and another doctrinaire solution "we must change the words, the words are evil, it is the fault of the people using these words buried deep in our technology where no-one could see them being used, we didn't turn our backs and do nothing, no it is the users of these words who are to blame".
Aside: The exception that proves the rule (of not having had a proper job) is the US, where a significant number of people who go into politics have a military background, as best I can tell the only western democracy where that is common. Granted, the military is a "proper job" but not one conducive to thinking like the man in the street; somehow I suspect that submersion in a background where any debate can be stifled by giving an order, and anything but the weakest, most politely voiced dissension is a court-martial offence does not make one well suited for an environment where both are daily challenges.
PlainName:
--- Quote ---A case in point is the "broken windows" doctrine of policing. It didn't work. It was a dismal failure. It made things worse.
--- End quote ---
Do you have references for that? I ask because the broken windows theory seems sound and, according to Wikipedia, it works. What doesn't work is zealous policing, which isn't necessary for implementing the broken windows policy. It's easy to mistake one for the other, and a valid theory may thus be misrepresented and unfairly made worthless through an internet meme.
magic:
--- Quote from: Cerebus on June 17, 2020, 12:36:55 am ---"we must change the words, the words are evil, it is the fault of the people using these words buried deep in our technology where no-one could see them being used, we didn't turn our backs and do nothing, no it is the users of these words who are to blame"
--- End quote ---
Whether you mean it about politicians or the SJWs who are coming up with those ideas, it's a massive strawman.
Democratic politicians just follow what the people want and the experts recommend. Regardless of your smug dismissal, there are numerous accredited scientists who say that this newspeak is useful and/or necessary. It was also a big deal on the Internet since the earliest 2010s, before certain career politicians capitalized on it in the last few years. Politicians just listen to the voice of the people, maybe you don't realize what that voice sounds like today.
As for SJWs themselves, well, let's say nobody is going to wonder if you may have possibly posted this in seriousness ;) A complete misrepresentation of their talking points and mentality.
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