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'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

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tggzzz:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on June 22, 2020, 10:34:01 am ---
--- Quote ---'they' is a plural pronoun
--- End quote ---

From the ODE:

--- Quote ---2. [singular] used to refer to a person of unspecified gender: ask a friend if they could help.
--- End quote ---

and


--- Quote ---usage: The word they (with its counterparts them, their, and themselves) as a singular pronoun to refer to a person of unspecified gender has been used since at least the 16th century. In the late 20th century, as the traditional use of he to refer to a person of either gender came under scrutiny on the grounds of sexism, this use of they became more common. It is now generally accepted in contexts where it follows an indefinite pronoun such as anyone, no one, someone, or a person, as in anyone can join if they are a resident and each to their own. In other contexts, coming after singular nouns, the use of they is now common, though less widely accepted, especially in formal contexts. Sentences such as ask a friend if they could help are still criticized for being ungrammatical. Nevertheless, in view of the growing acceptance of they and its obvious practical advantages, they is used in this dictionary in many cases where he would have been used formerly. In a more recent development, they is now being used to refer to specific individuals (as in Alex is bringing their laptop). Like the gender-neutral honorific Mx1, the singular they is preferred by some individuals who identify as neither male nor female. See also usage at he and she.
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

I rather doubt that will convince "magic"; he'll invent another reason why that isn't the case.

Curiously the usenet proponents of "hir" and similar could never be persuaded that "their" was a commonplace existing word with precisely the meaning they wanted!

EEVblog:

--- Quote from: julianhigginson on June 22, 2020, 09:52:06 am ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on June 22, 2020, 08:40:46 am ---Cite one example of where someone has used master/slave in a technical document context to "bully other people"
And even if you could cite a few examples, is that a reason to abandon a standard industry term that has been used and taught for generations?

--- End quote ---

So do you want one or not? It sounds like there's not much point from your following sentence. Which also seems very much like an appeal to tradition.

--- End quote ---

Sure, post away. Seriously. You are the one defending this nonsense change, so if you want others to get on board and join you then you need to convince us it's a problem that needs to be solved.
And it's an appeal to practically and statistics, but yes tradition matters, consistency in technology terms and units and others things matters a lot. Vastly more so than so obscure example you might have of someone being "bullied" by the use of the terms.
Even if you posted 10 clear cut examples, do you realise what a nothing-burger that is in the scheme of generations of use of the terms in the industry.
So my point stands.

coppice:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on June 22, 2020, 10:34:01 am ---
--- Quote ---'they' is a plural pronoun
--- End quote ---

From the ODE:

--- Quote ---2. [singular] used to refer to a person of unspecified gender: ask a friend if they could help.
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---
We all use "they" as a singular without even thinking about it. The problem is the word flows well in some contexts, and poorly in others. When it flows well, as in the ODE example above, we don't even think about it. When it doesn't flow well we baulk at it.

GlennSprigg:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on June 19, 2020, 02:20:06 pm ---
--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on June 19, 2020, 02:15:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on June 19, 2020, 01:57:06 pm ---Oh, and I'm pretty sure this thread is going to go off the rail if it hasn't done so already, so please keep it fairly on-topic. No obvious segues into BLM etc please.

--- End quote ---
Than shut the whole thread down, instead of just liking 'your' posts!

--- End quote ---

Or how about I just go through all 22 pages and delete any inflammatory off-topic stuff?

--- End quote ---

(Yes Dave, this reply is PAGES deep & Old...  ;D )
I don't mind people digressing, as 'you' must be tolerant too when 'original' posts seem to vary
so much, either side of the proverbial 'tracks', and become racial/political. (Generally a no-no here!).
My 'Miftness' back then, was after some Admin person deleted my comment, when all I was doing was
'replying' (quoting) someone else's video/comment, which I thought needed clarification, in support of
people in such a horrible situation.  However, only 'I' was blocked/deleted, over the prior 22+ pages??  :(
To be honest, I'm really surprised this Post has survived as long as it has!!  ;D
Keep up your generally good work though, Dave...   :-+

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on June 22, 2020, 10:51:59 am ---
--- Quote from: julianhigginson on June 22, 2020, 09:52:06 am ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on June 22, 2020, 08:40:46 am ---Cite one example of where someone has used master/slave in a technical document context to "bully other people"
And even if you could cite a few examples, is that a reason to abandon a standard industry term that has been used and taught for generations?

--- End quote ---

So do you want one or not? It sounds like there's not much point from your following sentence. Which also seems very much like an appeal to tradition.

--- End quote ---

Sure, post away. Seriously. You are he one defending this nonsense change, so you want others to get on board and join you then you need to convince us it's a problem that needs to be solved.
And it's an appeal to practically and statistics, but yes tradition matters, consistently in technology terms and units and others things matters a lot. Vastly more so than so obscure example you might have of someone being "bullied" by the use of the terms.
Even if you posted 10 clear cut examples, do you realise what a nothing-burger that is in the scheme of generations of use of the terms in the industry.
So my point stands.

--- End quote ---

There is a parallel phenomenon in the tech industry, especially the software industry, but also electronics. It too is annoying, partly because it wastes people's time. The technique is simple and beloved of marketeers, and to a lesser extent technical people that are ignorant or seeking to advance their careers.

What is it? Simply to give an old technique a new name, so that people are either

* bamboozled into thinking there is an advance, or
* have to waste their time verifying that there isn't an advance - and then convince the bamboozled that there isn't actually a silver bullet
Me irritated? Yes, most definitely!

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