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'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
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SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: james_s on July 02, 2020, 12:46:18 am ---
--- Quote from: coppice on July 01, 2020, 10:12:16 pm ---We also had a female leader of the conservative party who famously drove every other woman out of the cabinet or other significant government or party role.

--- End quote ---

My (female) partner works in a very heavily female dominated industry and has on numerous occasions complained that women are "catty" and said that there is so much petty drama. Her words, not mine. Personally I quite like working with women however they've always been rare in tech.

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I've been lucky and had female bosses for many years - they've been great!
james_s:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on July 02, 2020, 02:20:46 am ---I've been lucky and had female bosses for many years - they've been great!

--- End quote ---

Now that you mention it, most of mine have been too. I had male bosses for only about 4 out of the last 15 years, they were mostly good too.
Raj:
Oh wait, I do...The problem isn't that we aren't letting it change it...The problem is they are getting paid to create problems where there are none since all of them have already been solved. PLEASE PEOPLE...STOP DONATING TO THESE PARASITES.

And those who aren't getting paid are delusional that they are on the right side, and when they win, they'll be the leaders of the world or something. Those people need a psychiatrist ( and apparently saying someone need a psychiatrist, is the only politically way left to call someone mental).


It also might have something to do with people maturing at an older age these days-https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-todays-teens-are-growing-up-more-slowly-than-they-used-to/ Maybe we should start stretching the schooling years to last 25% longer and make the voting age older?



The way American diversity is, I'm surprised why it hasn't fallen yet. Being an Indian, I've seen a lot of infighting within the country on the basis of caste and what not and America isn't even made of people of a single country. What's worse is many American green card holders don't wanna be known as Americans, but Indians, Africans, Middle easterner etc while they gladly reap the benefits of American law



Meanwhile, most of the electronics are made in countries with real slavery specially China, they might try to hide it but they can't. Even in India, my neighbors own servants who serve them in exchange for using their land/building as a shelter (no salary). If it isn't slavery then what is it?

May the historic records remain unaltered so we remember why slavery was bad. Forgetting it would only help bringing it back under different name.




Our man AvE already calls male-female connectors as pokey bit and pokey bit receptacle  :-DD




--- Quote from: nfmax on June 11, 2020, 08:42:11 am ---If you don't like 'master' and 'slave', you could adopt the original (1981-ish) SASI/SCSI standard terminology of 'initiator' and 'target', and still be using consistent technical language.

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I like that buy why change gigabites worth of text in several datasheet just for people who can't just shutup and admire what EE make for them




--- Quote from: cgroen on June 11, 2020, 09:40:16 am ---O my god (one out of 6000 different, do your own pick), personally, my compiler and soldering iron are my gods.....
At first I thought you were making a joke  |O

Why oh why bother with idiotic stuff like this, its been master/slave for obvious reasons, if someone gets this wrong, its their own mind that is wrong in the first place ("for the pure, everything is pure").

STOP BEING OFFENDED AT ANY POSSIBLE CHANCE

And no, "primary" and "secondary" has nothing similar to "Master" and "Slave", the "Master" is, hmmm, "The Master" and the slave obeys.
What about "Female" and "Male" adapters, maybe the "Female adapter" don't think of itself as "female" but one of the other 68 different types that exists.....


EDIT: Here is some more to be offended about:
0xDEADBABE
0xDEADFEED
0xBABEFEED
0xC0DEFEED
0xC0DEBABE

Go ahead


Geez, enough of this craziness  |O |O |O |O

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We at EEVBLOG apparently aren't, but it's the companies making chips for us who'll bend the knee fearing for their own properties being burnt down by these far leftists.



--- Quote from: Berni on June 11, 2020, 09:55:43 am ---
--- Quote from: bd139 on June 11, 2020, 09:41:36 am ---On connectors we're going to be forced to use GR-874's until a hermaphrodite gets offended  :-DD

--- End quote ---

Oh phew i thought id have to use those APC-7 connectors. My wallet can't afford those.

But yeah my coworker kept referring to them as "hermaphrodite connectors" because he forgot the name for it and having only one gender is the main feature.

--- End quote ---

I'll still like them over USB C cause they are mostly orientationally independent  :-DD



--- Quote from: trash on June 11, 2020, 10:33:27 am ---And what am I supposed to do with my male and female connectors?
I'm going to have to start using gender neutral or trans DB9 connectors?

Normally I would suggest that somebody says these things as a great prank joke.
But unfortunately there are people out there who take the idea seriously.

--- End quote ---

Naa, even these professionally offended guys will admit it that they aren't really serious about it.



--- Quote from: tggzzz on June 11, 2020, 10:45:35 am ---I vote for

* "politician" and "elector"
--- End quote ---
I'd love that



--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 11, 2020, 02:50:32 pm ---This is just getting ridiculous. Really.

Even for people actively working against racism IMHO. They are just wasting their time (and everyone else's) while there are certainly valid causes to defend.
If anything, this is just getting non-activists irritated, which just works against their cause. I sometimes wonder if those people are not just sabotaging the cause actually while just trying to get some exposure.

As an extra thought specifically about this "word ban" approach: I suggest those people to read (or re-read) "1984". The idea of banning words from the language just for the sake of avoiding related thoughts to even form in peoples' heads is exactly what was described as "Newspeak".

--- End quote ---

"working for racism"? is there any racism left?




--- Quote from: engrguy42 on June 11, 2020, 04:09:36 pm ---So I have a question:

For those of us who've been around for a while, when did it happen that people started with the attitude "the entire world has to worry about protecting MY feelings and NEVER do or say anything that might even slightly offend me"?

I mean, back in the old days it was "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". Y'know, the kind of attitude that intelligent, grown up adults would try to take, and teach young kids about. Learn to deal with life and put it in perspective. But now it's all about "likes" and emotion and ego, not rationality. And apparently the worst thing you can do is to offend someone. WTF?   

Somehow we're supposed to know what might offend any of the 7.6 billion people on the planet. It's insane. Where have the adults gone? We're supposed to know (or care) what words offend any random person? WTF?

It must have been in the 80's or something. But it seems like now everyone has bought into the insanity.

We're doomed.   

EDIT: BTW, DrG, the "pimp/bitch" was hilarious.  :-DD

--- End quote ---

Again, cause we're paying them to be offended


--- Quote from: Simon on June 12, 2020, 09:06:48 am ---https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000jx41

All these protests about history. Well for the idiots information the problem only ever got worse but they don't care about that they just want to run around pulling statues down and erasing history because that will make today's problems go away.

--- End quote ---

Some say, they want their "evil" history to be forgotten. Others say, they want history to be repeated but with the race roles reversed. And say they are just goofing around like kids would if they were in grown up's body. Meanwhile I wonder what drugs, these people are on?



--- Quote from: bd139 on June 12, 2020, 09:14:47 am ---
--- Quote from: wraper on June 12, 2020, 09:10:17 am ---
--- Quote from: trash on June 11, 2020, 10:33:27 am ---And what am I supposed to do with my male and female connectors?
I'm going to have to start using gender neutral or trans DB9 connectors?

Normally I would suggest that somebody says these things as a great prank joke.
But unfortunately there are people out there who take the idea seriously.

--- End quote ---
Call them Partner A and Partner B.

--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---
Aah, Usb, you were so great, until you weren't. Now everything is USB C but if you accidentally plug that usb c device into that usb c port, they will blow up.


--- Quote from: Simon on June 12, 2020, 11:09:19 am ---our local council once decided to encourage more Indians to work for them to better represent the population of the town. I thought WTF? they can apply for office jobs at the council the same as anyone else. Positive discrimination is still discrimination. All you need to do in treat people equally. If positive discrimination carry's on for too long it becomes racism the other way around, so rather than trying to fix the so called problem in an instant you implement the solution, equal treatment.

--- End quote ---
Should sue em, unless that council in Indian :p then it's nothing but  swadeshi efforts.


--- Quote from: fcb on June 15, 2020, 01:56:22 pm ---Genuinely interested in what terms we should use in systems to replace MASTER/SLAVE?

What terminology are the big boys (Keysight/Tek etc..) using? What accurately conveys the relationship between equipment or parts of a system?

What about appropriating BDSM terminology, surely that won’t offend anyone – DOM/SUB? Or perhaps just change to MASTER/SERVANT.

Could black and white lists be changed to RED and GREEN, or do they have other meanings in computing?

--- End quote ---
Can we call black people dark browns instead?


--- Quote from: EEVblog on June 21, 2020, 02:25:14 am ---Adafruit are replacing Master/Slave and other terms in all their documentation:
https://www.adafruit.com/blacklivesmatter

(Attachment Link)

--- End quote ---
Not surprised at all :p


--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on June 21, 2020, 05:29:09 am ---
--- Quote ---Adafruit are replacing Master/Slave and other terms in all their documentation:
--- End quote ---

Got to say that in their case the alternative 'microcontroller out, sensor in' does make sense and is more descriptive. Of course, it's bollocks for the protocol proper, but since Adafruit generally make micro-controlled stuff this would no doubt save an entry in their FAQ.

--- End quote ---
What if you're using it to let 2 different micros talk and share info?


--- Quote from: Simon on June 21, 2020, 10:13:36 am ---i have come across SPI stuff that uses DI and DO and it confused the hell out of me. I don't think it was written like that because of sensitivities but poor English and understanding of SPI along with the fact that the screen never returns data to the master.

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me too. usually I remark em


--- Quote from: magic on June 21, 2020, 10:56:00 am ---I'm not into that "maker" subculture so I always judged Adafruit by the first three letters of their name alone and didn't even care to know anything more.

--- End quote ---

I kinda hate the name. "Lady Ada" is not even nearly as great as Ada Lovelace. If she can rename herself like that, call me Enstine


--- Quote from: EEVblog on June 22, 2020, 12:06:23 am ---
--- Quote from: julianhigginson on June 21, 2020, 11:46:03 pm ---I'm still unsure of how much of a push there is from actual people of colour for this change, and therefore how much a of a need for it there is - but since it's so easy to do, and has some precedent in the community now
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It's not "easy to do". There are generations of course material, datasheets, app notes, and tutorials etc, not to mention the countless teachers and engineers who don't give a rats arse about modern identity politics. Adafruit and a few others wouldn't even represent a fraction of a percent of the material and sentiment out there.
And not teaching the accepted industry standard terms is disadvantageous to any students.

--- End quote ---
Good luck trying to find a person who was actually a colored slave who also works with electronics.


--- Quote from: james_s on June 22, 2020, 04:56:39 am ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on June 22, 2020, 03:57:57 am ---Shouldn't we think of something better / more effective to help those people, than changing some words?

--- End quote ---


People like a nice easy thing so they can "do something" without actually having to do very much. There are many things that can be done to actually help people and prevent some of the situations people are upset about but the actions that are effective are not easy or fast. I'm reminded of the marches for breast cancer and such, it has never made sense to me, marching around does nothing to fight cancer, everyone is already aware so there's no need to raise awareness, and if you want to raise money why not do something useful/productive and donate the proceeds to an organization that actually researches cancer treatment? It's much simpler to just go join a march though and feel like you're making a difference.

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[/quote]
I wonder how much money raised by them actually goes towards paying the scientists. And hasn't breast cancer problem, already over? It's on you to get yourself x-rayed/screened regularly (same as any other cancer).



--- Quote from: Mastro Gippo on June 30, 2020, 07:16:18 pm ---After blocking comments on the article, Hackaday also deleted almost all of the 200+ comments on the facebook thread: https://www.facebook.com/hackaday.io/posts/3518305734849345
It's interesting that of the 200+ comments that were there, only 16 are left. The community has spoken, but the hackaday fascists want to impose their way denying free speech. They have no respect for people, but want people to respect their ideology.

--- End quote ---

Publishing on hackaday almost feels like a participation price when it's filled with posters like these-https://hackaday.io/frankm23
No quality screening at all.
EEVblog:
And because there are people that will search for and find every word I say on this forum as "ammunition" against me, let me say for the record that I have no problem with individuals wanting this stuff and doing it themselves. The most you'll get from me is an eye roll, do whatever you want.
So it's ok for individuals on the board at places like OSWH association and the like to push for this personally. But I think it's a step too far to have organisations promote this, and bring identity and group politics into an organisation where there should not be any. And with quite antagonistic language at that.
Again, they are free to do that, but I think it's a big mistake. Group and identity politics just destroys everything it touches, and it never ends.
This is why I refuse to support this kind of thing, it's the principle of not allowing identity politics to infest engineering and create division and bad blood.
There are people, including fellow content creators who hate me for my stance on refusing to participate in identity politics. And some of them even want me "cancelled" as a result. Yet I don't hate them or have any ill will at all toward them for what position they hold on this, I don't care in fact, as long as it doesn't impact others. The animosity seems to flow all in one direction, from those demanding things, to those just rolling their eyes and wondering what the problem is.
Those opposing this are just saying it's silly to even consider it a problem, why bother, it achieves nothing. Yet they will get attacked and coerced into either complying or shutting up about it. I think this is highly disruptive and nothing but detrimental to relationships in the community, for practically zero value.
It makes me sad when people get so invested in this stuff that they are willing to attack people and destroy relationships over it. Again, usually it's all a one way street.
Simon:
People want to look around and see things as they expect them to be. That means nothing different they have to adapt to, it's easier for them, fuck every one else who have to meet their demands. And they are demands! rude and arrogant ones an that. I find it worrying how the open bollocks association equate the use of the word slave to disrespecting people. So we basically can't say slave anywore, well that's fine, the open hardware bollocks association has just eliminated the existing crimes of slavery. All the people currently enslaved are not actually enslaved and there is nothing wrong with them because these assholes have just removed their status as slaves as they have unilaterally removed the word for the world. Police forces may now stand down and stop wasting money on freeing modern slaves because the problem has just gone away. I cannot find suitable words to describe these pricks!

It's no surprise that they locked their comments right after my post on their site reminding them of modern slavery, they are not different to any other oppressive organisation. In the name of freedom they have issued a new edict of oppression.
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