Author Topic: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts  (Read 28447 times)

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Offline paulca

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #900 on: June 30, 2020, 09:49:21 am »
- We are the anti-authoritarian Good People™.
- ?
- Here is the list of words you are not allowed to use, or you will be Excised from All Good Communities™.
- Wha..?  Why?  That makes no sense at all!
- Racist!  Racist!  We will burn you at the stake, you nonbeliever offensive racist you!
(Gets burned to the death on the stake)
- Okay, who's next?  Is it time for lunch yet?

Zero tolerance to intolerance.  They see no irony.  They see no injustice.  They see no fault.
I mentioned this to a bunch of them online on FB and they retorted I should read the "Paradox of tolerance".  However, ironically (recursive irony), the concept they are referring to is a miss-contexted reading of an old book where the original author was actually suggesting that social justice has no place in a democracy and showing intolerance to intolerance has no place outside of the law of the state or the courts and "the law of the people" should have no say.

"Love thy neighbour."
"What about them over there?  They once hated something."
"Did I stutter?  LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR"
"But, but, but, we don't want to love them, or them, and they say things we don't like, so we don't love them...."

Although personally I draw the line at flat Earthers.

Anyway, it's a long held suspicion that the emerging culture of "inclusiveness" has slowly turned into fascism.  They create little circles of like minded folks and when someone shows up and counters their "beliefs" and culture, they ostrasize them out into the cold, banishing them.  The irony is so thick you could choke on it.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 09:53:30 am by paulca »
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Online coppice

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #901 on: June 30, 2020, 10:01:12 am »
Zero tolerance to intolerance.
The term "zero tolerance" was only created because even intolerant people knew the word "intolerance" sounds bad.
 

Offline MadTux

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #902 on: June 30, 2020, 10:15:41 am »
I found two of my male BNC connectors next to each other.
Are they GAY????
 
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Offline bitwelder

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #903 on: June 30, 2020, 10:27:48 am »

Yeah, thanks, take note guys:

Quote
Endorsements
Individuals and companies welcome (Email info@oshwa.org to be added to the list below)

Adam Benzion, Hackster.io
bunnie, bunniestudios
Glenn Samala, Sparkfun
Harris Kenny, OSHdata
Jason Huggins, Tapster Robotics
Jonathan Georgino, Binho LLC
Joshua Lifton, Crowd Supply
Libi Striegl, Media Archaeology Lab
Limor Fried, Adafruit Industries
Matthias Tarasiewicz, RIAT Institute
Nathan Seidle, SparkFun Electronics
Phil Torrone, Adafruit Industries
Shawn Hymel, Hello Blink Show
Steven Abadie, OSHdata
Tod Kurt, ThingM
Tom Igoe, NYU ITP
Joel Murphy, Pulse Sensor
Yury Gitman, Pulse Sensor

Even though OSHWA aims to be international, it's interesting (but not surprising) how the list of endorsers is made of only US persons/companies.
 

Offline retrolefty

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #904 on: June 30, 2020, 03:59:55 pm »
Another tidbit about the OSHWA's resolution is that they associate slaves with black people which can be seen as racist. Oopsie! Are words racist or people? Maybe the OSHWA should ban itself. >:D
The so-called Black Lives Matter movement do the same, perhaps we should ban them too?

The odd thing is I used to support them, until the way they showed a blatant disregard for human life, by forming huge crowds in the middle of a pandemic. I now call them No Lives Matter and if people think that's racist, I don't give a fuck. Most of those involved in the protestes are students who are fed up with staying in, as the colleges, universitys and clubs are closed and need an excuse to get out. They don't really care about the lives of blacks, or anyone else's.


Oh well, this stupidity hit hackaday as well.
https://hackaday.com/2020/06/29/updating-the-language-of-spi-pin-labels-to-remove-casual-references-to-slavery/
Someone coined very well in comments:
"This is what psychologists call “displacement activity”. When you can’t directly change something, people change something else that they can, even if it is not relevant."
And worst part, those who push those changes often belongs to ancestors of enslavers. Either they feel guilt, but dont want to do something real, either just trying to close our eyes to the shameful past of their ancestry.

Don't get me started on white guilt, which is just nonense. No one should be made to feel guilty for the actions of their ancestors, which they have no control over. Making someone feel bad about themselves because of their race/ancestory is racist and biggoted. I'm in favour of banning the term white guilt.

  Might call it being guilty while white?
 

Offline nuno

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #905 on: June 30, 2020, 04:16:53 pm »
Comments already disabled, I guess telling people what they can and cannot say is easier if you also delete all the historical words you disagree with.

hackaday also closed comments on the related article ( https://hackaday.com/2020/06/29/updating-the-language-of-spi-pin-labels-to-remove-casual-references-to-slavery/ ). Looks like they are supporting the initiative to the point of closing comments.
I am not liking where this is going, at all. I guess I'll have to re-think some of my usual sites and suppliers.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #906 on: June 30, 2020, 05:33:14 pm »
I really had to laugh about some comments in that topic.
What are we gonna call all the MSc in the world, SDSc ?  ;)
 

Offline Sal Ammoniac

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #907 on: June 30, 2020, 05:59:12 pm »
 :-+ Troll topic of the month--congratulations!
Nothing lasts as long as a workaround.
 

Offline paulca

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #908 on: June 30, 2020, 06:20:41 pm »
This is Jonathon Pie, a UK "angry" political comedian.


EDIT:  People slag the BBC off, especially when they ask us to pay like $200 a year whether we watch it or not.... but, the thing is, they aired that.  They aired Frankie Boyle.  No commercial TV network would dare to air that.  But because they do not rely on commercial sponsors and advertisers they can show whatever they like that's of interest to the public.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 06:27:23 pm by paulca »
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Offline paulca

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #909 on: June 30, 2020, 06:47:20 pm »
Sounding like I've changed sides.  Would you....

Consider a protocol which referred to roles and relationships such as Pimp, Whore, Trick inappropriate?



"What could possibly go wrong?"
Current Open Projects:  3 Channel Audio mixer with DAC, BT, pre-amps and h/phone amp, WS281x LED controller Version 2 5V/5A w/Atmega328, FY6600 Power supply, 5A DC Load (Still!)
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Online bd139

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #911 on: June 30, 2020, 06:58:33 pm »
Well it’s change.org so that’s dead already.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #912 on: June 30, 2020, 07:10:18 pm »
It's always a good idea to try and examine the idea from a completely different angle, but it is important to not get caught in the mental holes; to be analytical and rational about it.

Consider a protocol which referred to roles and relationships such as Pimp, Whore, Trick inappropriate?
As far as I understand, "pimp" is someone who controls prostitutes, "whore" is a prostitute, and "trick" is either a prostitute's client, a cunning or deceitful action, or one of a few other meanings; and a machine cannot prostitute itself, as it is just an "adult toy" when used for any such purpose.  Also, I believe the term is "bestiality" if animals are involved.

Control, on the other hand, is perfectly generic relationship, and is only objectionable when the controlled one is a sentient being or an animal suffering due to mistreatment.  In a technical context, without anything alive, there is nothing objectionable in master-slave relationship.

So, I do not see the analogy or connection between the two sets of terms: One set has technically-relevant meanings, while the other does not.

(As to "trick", I often describe a particularly important but not immediately obvious part in either software or hardware as "the trick is ...", so I guess I already use that one.)

A better comparison would be to ask if "bleeder" instead of charger and "leech" instead of chargee/charged device would be inappropriate.  (I think charger is better since it directly relates to the thing transferred – charge – but would not consider "bleeder" and "leech" inappropriate or offensive either.)
 
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #913 on: June 30, 2020, 07:13:32 pm »
That reminds me:  A lot of my programs utilize pools of worker threads.  Do you think they'll ban that, worker, too?

If "master" and "slave" are offensive in a technical context, having a "worker" do menial software tasks must be too, I guess.  :palm:
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #914 on: June 30, 2020, 07:16:18 pm »
After blocking comments on the article, Hackaday also deleted almost all of the 200+ comments on the facebook thread: https://www.facebook.com/hackaday.io/posts/3518305734849345
It's interesting that of the 200+ comments that were there, only 16 are left. The community has spoken, but the hackaday fascists want to impose their way denying free speech. They have no respect for people, but want people to respect their ideology.
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #915 on: June 30, 2020, 07:19:35 pm »
Sounding like I've changed sides.  Would you....

Consider a protocol which referred to roles and relationships such as Pimp, Whore, Trick inappropriate?

What about male and female plugs and sockets?   Surely such blatant sexism cannot be tolerated.
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #916 on: June 30, 2020, 07:23:46 pm »
Also, this is not what I would expect from engineers. CIPO and COPI are simply retarded. Engineers solve problems (assuming there was a problem to begin with) smartly. There:

MISO = Main In Secondary Out
MOSI = Main Out Secondary In

At this point, it's clear that they only wanted free press, and we're giving it to them. What can we do to publicly tell what the actual community thinks? We thought that THEY (oshwa, hackaday, etc) were the ones who spoke for the community, and we gave them that power when they actually were doing good things. Now we don't have anyone to represent us but ourselves.
 
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Online bd139

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #917 on: June 30, 2020, 07:35:46 pm »
That reminds me:  A lot of my programs utilize pools of worker threads.  Do you think they'll ban that, worker, too?

If "master" and "slave" are offensive in a technical context, having a "worker" do menial software tasks must be too, I guess.  :palm:

Correct. Subordination is the foundation of hierarchy. Hierarchy is the foundation of order and society.

If we erase this we’re, to use a technical term, fucked.
 
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Online Simon

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #918 on: June 30, 2020, 07:38:06 pm »
Also, this is not what I would expect from engineers. CIPO and COPI are simply retarded. Engineers solve problems (assuming there was a problem to begin with) smartly. There:


Hm, controller and peripheral? sounds like a controlling relationship where the victim is marginalized, how dare they normalize such behavior, clearly the controller is male and the peripheral female.
 

Offline paulca

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #919 on: June 30, 2020, 07:38:30 pm »
That reminds me:  A lot of my programs utilize pools of worker threads.  Do you think they'll ban that, worker, too?


Workers are disposable.  They are spawned to serve a purpose and complete a task serving client, they are then immediately terminated and all resources they had held are released.  Any children they spawned are considered trash and collected along with their resources.

This could literally be a section from a software framework manual.  Or server daemons like Apache.... and don't tell me that apache.org is racist too, now?
"What could possibly go wrong?"
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Online Simon

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #920 on: June 30, 2020, 07:39:35 pm »
This is Jonathon Pie, a UK "angry" political comedian.


EDIT:  People slag the BBC off, especially when they ask us to pay like $200 a year whether we watch it or not.... but, the thing is, they aired that.  They aired Frankie Boyle.  No commercial TV network would dare to air that.  But because they do not rely on commercial sponsors and advertisers they can show whatever they like that's of interest to the public.

I love this guy, I wish he would put himself up for election. He always says exactly what i feel and struggle to articulate.
 

Offline paulca

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #921 on: June 30, 2020, 07:53:53 pm »
This is Jonathon Pie, a UK "angry" political comedian.


EDIT:  People slag the BBC off, especially when they ask us to pay like $200 a year whether we watch it or not.... but, the thing is, they aired that.  They aired Frankie Boyle.  No commercial TV network would dare to air that.  But because they do not rely on commercial sponsors and advertisers they can show whatever they like that's of interest to the public.

I love this guy, I wish he would put himself up for election. He always says exactly what i feel and struggle to articulate.

#jonathonpieforprimeminister


« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 07:56:08 pm by paulca »
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Offline temperance

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #922 on: June 30, 2020, 08:04:56 pm »
Tomorrow there is a protest against the use of the term totem pole. Thou shalt not not use totem pole outputs for 1 hour.
 

Offline Echo88

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #923 on: June 30, 2020, 08:07:42 pm »
Führer Out Goebbels In / Goebbels Out Führer In
FOGI / GOFI

Culturally insensitive but everybody knows whos the commander.
Cant do that with Mussolini, he'll brown out under pressure during communication.

At first i was also headshaking about the topic, but then i remembered that i was never in their shoes, so we'd need to ask actual black people wether it seriously bothers them, not other persons who like to speak on behalf of them.
 
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Offline paulca

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Re: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts
« Reply #924 on: June 30, 2020, 08:18:04 pm »
Hopefully this is a side storm that will fade.  Let them make their changes.  In 6 months when school starts back up properly and a few more of  the younger realise it's always sucked and... we already know that.

In a year we won't even remember this.

EDIT:  They are lighting a beacon, the purpose of which I hope we all support, but it's badly aimed, poorly focused and will be ultimately ineffective.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 08:21:37 pm by paulca »
"What could possibly go wrong?"
Current Open Projects:  3 Channel Audio mixer with DAC, BT, pre-amps and h/phone amp, WS281x LED controller Version 2 5V/5A w/Atmega328, FY6600 Power supply, 5A DC Load (Still!)
 


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