Author Topic: 'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts  (Read 25874 times)

Raj, EEVblog, Simon, PeterZ, JPortici, terminus, John B, Kjelt, gooligumelec and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31331
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
But I don't understand who gives a rats arse about them and their certification? what does their certification get you?

Nothing but a nice number and logo to put on your PCB silkscreen and your website.
 

Offline nuclearcat

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 188
  • Country: lb
Do they even matter though? I mean it’s a free market. You don’t need to even give a shit about them existing.

Which is what most people do. Huge numbers of designers don't even know or care they are a thing.
I proposed an addition to the OSHW logo to make it clearer your terms and intentions, like a Creative Commons type letter system.
It was met by deathly silence (and I'm sure gnashed teeth) from the OSHW organisation and affiliated companies like Adafruit and Sparkfun, but otherwise was quite well receive by the community.


As with all opensource - seems time to fork this project. Viva Libre Hardware!
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14901
  • Country: gb
Open Sores is a cult :scared:
And it's mostly a left-leaning cult, so no surprise.

They really have similar mentality and talking points to the ultra radical far-left, if you think about it:
- the world is screwed by profit seeking
- we will change the world
- here's ten reasons why logic and facts prove that our model is superior
- we are winning and you can't stop us
- if you really want to make money, you will, but only as much as you deserve

I sincerely encourage everyone to consider hating Open Sores and recognizing that Free Software (or Free Hardware if you wish) is the only truth and Richard Matthew Stallman is our prophet.

There is still a bunch of crazies around FSF, but at least they are a different sort of crazy. They do this shit because they want it to exist, not because they have been radicalized by some Internet nutjob claiming that this is a technically superior development methodology, despite all evidence to the contrary.

I write a fair bit of OSS stuff but the GNU stuff is quite frankly mental. I build and contribute to stuff which might be useful to me. If someone else benefits from it then good for them.

The point of OSS with OSHWA is marketing and branding, nothing more. It reminds me of the whole “genuine arduino” bollocks a few years back. If it’s open source the isn’t the clone genuine too?
 
The following users thanked this post: madires

Offline donotdespisethesnake

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1104
  • Country: gb
  • Embedded stuff
But I don't understand who gives a rats arse about them and their certification? what does their certification get you?

I think the OSHWA is pretty much irrelevant. But the list of signatories contains some well known "White Knights" who have shown they have time and resources to pursue SJW type campaigns. There is a set of people with some close links. They will be using their platforms and influence to lobby companies to change terminology, they will likely just give in that face down media campaigns on twitter etc.

The people who condemn fascism nevertheless have shown a willingness to use fascist tactics to further their cause. That is, controlling speech and thought.

I've been trawling through comments trying to find out if POC have ever expressed discomfort with the terms master/slave. The two I found both said it is stupid and insulting to their intelligence. It really seems to be a campaign by white allies presuming to know what POC think. It has become a "loyalty test", people are forced to take sides. Either you swallow the kool-aid, or be branded the "enemy".

Quote
kentrado 17 hours ago [–]

As a black person, I find this to be pretty racist. The idea that this will appease blacks or is wanted by us is deeply insulting.

How disconnected from black experience can you be that you think this is important or desirable?

It trivializes our very important concerns about police brutality and systematic racism. Do you want to fight against slavery? Then lets campaign to abolish the exception in the 13th amendment.
Bob
"All you said is just a bunch of opinions."
 
The following users thanked this post: madires

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31331
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
More politics from the OSHW association:
https://www.oshwa.org/2020/06/26/black-lives-matter/
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139, WattsThat

Online SerieZ

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 132
  • Country: ch
  • Zap!
Quote
The problem with the left is that think every is intelligent and will listen to reason, the right realize that there are not very many intelligent people and so pander to the ignorant masses and win elections.

You are fitting quite all off the stereotypes as an ex-green party member saying that the left assumes everyone is Intelligent and listens to reason and ending the same sentence with that the masses are Ignorant and vote for the pandering Right without realizing the Irony in that.

Are you by any chance also driving a Porsche?



As easy as paint by number.
 

Online Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 14925
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
But I don't understand who gives a rats arse about them and their certification? what does their certification get you?

Nothing but a nice number and logo to put on your PCB silkscreen and your website.

Oh, that all - like I say who do they think they are.
 

Offline tom66

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3749
  • Country: gb
  • Electron Fiddler, FPGA Hacker, Embedded Systems EE
The film "Get Out" is a good commentary on the "white liberal who just wants to help" and how transparent it truly is.  (The creepy family, well, I won't spoil the film, but they are of this type.)

The ones who say "I voted for Obama twice, I did my part!" without actually understanding the genuine struggles that someone who is black goes through.  They are almost more dangerous than actual racists who are generally obvious and avoidable.  They can be dangerous because they believe that all they need is token gestures rather than, say, donating to charities to improve the situations for children of single parents or mentoring someone from an underprivileged background who wants to get into the industry but maybe lacks the exact skills.
 

Online Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 14925
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Quote
The problem with the left is that think every is intelligent and will listen to reason, the right realize that there are not very many intelligent people and so pander to the ignorant masses and win elections.

You are fitting quite all off the stereotypes as an ex-green party member saying that the left assumes everyone is Intelligent and listens to reason and ending the same sentence with that the masses are Ignorant and vote for the pandering Right without realizing the Irony in that.

Are you by any chance also driving a Porsche?





No i don't drive a Porsche. In an ideal world you could explain facts to people and they would understand what you are trying to tell them, agree and behave accordingly. But people have ego's and don't like to be wrong. I don't mind being wrong, i will work with the information I have until I am given better information and will be happy to change based on that. Bu most people won't change which is why society changes so slowly and why new things do not take off quickly.

Typical example is electric cars. Petrol heads poo poo them as being low performance, but if they actually drive one many are convinced by their obvious superior performance. Just telling them is not enough. But that sort of quick demo of look how much better "this" way of doing it works is not possible in most other things and people cling on to the past and what they know as they fear change, not because of the change but it challenges their current ideas and this is stupid.
 

Online tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11708
  • Country: gb
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Before anybody thinks of making a substantive response to this post of magics, consider Dave's point in
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/master-and-slave-tech-terms-face-scrutiny-amid-anti-racism-efforts/msg3104760/#msg3104760


Open Sores is a cult :scared:
And it's mostly a left-leaning cult, so no surprise.
<snip>
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1104
  • Country: gb
  • Embedded stuff
Before anybody thinks of making a substantive response to this post of magics, consider Dave's point in
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/master-and-slave-tech-terms-face-scrutiny-amid-anti-racism-efforts/msg3104760/#msg3104760


Open Sores is a cult :scared:
And it's mostly a left-leaning cult, so no surprise.
<snip>

Yeah, magic is obviously here for the trollz, not worth replying to.
Bob
"All you said is just a bunch of opinions."
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1104
  • Country: gb
  • Embedded stuff
Quote
The problem with the left is that think every is intelligent and will listen to reason, the right realize that there are not very many intelligent people and so pander to the ignorant masses and win elections.

You are fitting quite all off the stereotypes as an ex-green party member saying that the left assumes everyone is Intelligent and listens to reason and ending the same sentence with that the masses are Ignorant and vote for the pandering Right without realizing the Irony in that.

Politics but... there is a general opinion that if people don't appreciate a "rational" argument then they must be stupid. I think all sides have that. However, parties which don't label voters as stupid have generally been more successful.



Bob
"All you said is just a bunch of opinions."
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31331
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
It has become a "loyalty test", people are forced to take sides. Either you swallow the kool-aid, or be branded the "enemy".

As a high profile person who has been on the receiving end of attempted "cancel culture" I can assure everyone it is 100% correct, even in the electronics industry. The only way to avoid it is to have zero opinion on anything, ever, on any platform.
No nuance of opinion is allowed.
Context does not matter.
Rational discussion and debate is not allowed.
Jokes and taking the piss out of identity politics is not allowed.
You are either stridently for "the cause" or you are literally branded the enemy.

And the funny thing is they they will turn on each other without a moment's hesitation. You can be the most outspoken and strident modern SJW with all the right talking points for years. But dare to have one nuanced opinion that "they" don't like, and you are forced to grovel and appologise under threat of "cancellation".
Dare to have a friend or colleague that is against modern identity politics? They'll attack and harraess you to end your relationship/partnership/electronics podcast with that person.
It is straight out bullying and intimidation to appease them and shut up. The entire system is toxic to the core.
A certain electronics podcast that many people have loved for the last decade was almost destroyed because of this culture. But I won't discuss that here.

It is predominately centered around Twitter and Americans though. Avoid Twitter and you avoid 90% of it all.
But now you get organisations that should have no place getting involved in politics feel they have to virtue signal and take action, thus bombarding people who ordinarily didn't care for any of this, into being exposed to this rubbish.
 
The following users thanked this post: nuclearcat

Offline madires

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5231
  • Country: de
  • A qualified hobbyist ;)
I've been trawling through comments trying to find out if POC have ever expressed discomfort with the terms master/slave. The two I found both said it is stupid and insulting to their intelligence. It really seems to be a campaign by white allies presuming to know what POC think. It has become a "loyalty test", people are forced to take sides. Either you swallow the kool-aid, or be branded the "enemy".

You can call "white allies presuming to know what POC think" white supremacists. And they also associate slaves with black people, which is racist. May we conclude that the OSHWA is promoting racism and white supremacy? >:D
 
The following users thanked this post: nuclearcat

Online SerieZ

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 132
  • Country: ch
  • Zap!
Quote
The problem with the left is that think every is intelligent and will listen to reason, the right realize that there are not very many intelligent people and so pander to the ignorant masses and win elections.

You are fitting quite all off the stereotypes as an ex-green party member saying that the left assumes everyone is Intelligent and listens to reason and ending the same sentence with that the masses are Ignorant and vote for the pandering Right without realizing the Irony in that.

Politics but... there is a general opinion that if people don't appreciate a "rational" argument then they must be stupid. I think all sides have that. However, parties which don't label voters as stupid have generally been more successful.

It is dogmatic thinking and the root of many evil.
I wish people could just stop throwing blanket statements around like that, especially people who are decent otherwise.

It is not only "Right Bad Left Good" statements - Same goes for statements like "Open Source is a leftist Cult" btw - Decent people need to open their mouth and tell the loonies to fuck off or else you will go the way of the Pirate Party in Germany.

Ignoring the Issue wont make it go away.
As easy as paint by number.
 

Online John B

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 315
  • Country: au
Apropos:


As a high profile person who has been on the receiving end of attempted "cancel culture" I can assure everyone it is 100% correct....

What/when/how did this happen? Mind you I'm not on twitter or basically any other social media, so it's quite likely this went totally under my radar.
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31331
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
In an ideal world you could explain facts to people and they would understand what you are trying to tell them, agree and behave accordingly. But people have ego's and don't like to be wrong. I don't mind being wrong, i will work with the information I have until I am given better information and will be happy to change based on that. Bu most people won't change which is why society changes so slowly and why new things do not take off quickly.

Unless there is political or social power as the prize and then people and ideas can indeed change very quickly!
It usually doesn't take people long to learn there is social currency and power in appearing to be virtuous and support causes and jumping on bandwagons. In the case of modern identity politics, these people usually don't learn they are right, they don't take the time to reason it out, they simply feel they are right. When you get that dopamine hit and instant reward for virtue signalling, people can change on a dime and be taken advantage of by groups, often to their eventual detriment.
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31331
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Decent people need to open their mouth and tell the loonies to fuck off or else you will go the way of the Pirate Party in Germany.
Ignoring the Issue wont make it go away.

Unfortunately decent and rational people with any sort of power or reach risk being "cancelled" if they do that. So it's easier to either capitulate or say nothing.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:00:00 am by EEVblog »
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139

Offline donotdespisethesnake

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1104
  • Country: gb
  • Embedded stuff
More irony...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53245501

Quote
The head of human resources at sportswear giant Adidas has resigned amid a row over the firm's corporate culture and lack of diversity.

Karen Parkin is a British citizen who had worked at Adidas for more than 20 years.

Her exit follows protests by Adidas staff over a comment she reportedly made at an internal meeting last year.
...
Ms Parkin, who is leaving the role with immediate effect, was the only woman on the company's board.

Her resignation means that the company's executive board is now made up entirely of white men. Adidas has previously said that it would take action to address issues of diversity and inclusion.

Shoot the messenger, but still no real change.
Bob
"All you said is just a bunch of opinions."
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31331
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
What/when/how did this happen? Mind you I'm not on twitter or basically any other social media, so it's quite likely this went totally under my radar.

I don't want to dredge it up. But yes, it's a Twitter thing.
The interesting thing is, not one person, not a single one, of the outraged twitter mob ever contacted me and asked for clarification.
They don't want your explanation, they have instantly made up their mind you are *insert ism's here*.
I was branded enemy of the state based on out-of-context or simply misinterpreted tweets that were shared by several high profile electronics people and that was that, it was cool to pile on and attack me and get me cancelled.
I simply ignored them and told them to bugger off until they started attacking and harassing people I knew. Twitter is toxic to the core.

Interestingly, the exact same tweet that sparked it all, on Instagram was met with zero outrage.

Please don't anyone derail this thread with talk of that here, I probably shouldn't have bought it up. But it is important to know that cancel culture exists in the electronics industry.
BTW, not that it worked on me, you can revel in the fact that it was a complete failure ;D
Unfortunately there was some collateral damage to other people associated with me.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:48:12 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5464
  • Country: gb
And the funny thing is they they will turn on each other without a moment's hesitation. You can be the most outspoken and strident modern SJW with all the right talking points for years..
This is baked in. The "correct" thing changes week by week, the internet remembers forever, and forgiveness, tolerance, and nuance are not permitted. Every single person's history is going to be out of line with the right-think-de-jour at some point, and the only think separating them from cancellation is whether someone is scanning their history on that day. Eventually they'll have some fancy system, with a cute name like "Orwell", to do the scanning automatically.
But dare to have one nuanced opinion that "they" don't like, and you are forced to grovel and appologise under threat of "cancellation".
That's not right. Any hint of apology will sink you completely, as its an admission. The few people who survive are the ones bold enough to say grow up.
 

Online SerieZ

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 132
  • Country: ch
  • Zap!
Decent people need to open their mouth and tell the loonies to fuck off or else you will go the way of the Pirate Party in Germany.
Ignoring the Issue wont make it go away.

Unfortunately decent and rational people with any sort of power or reach risk being "cancelled" if they do that. So it's easier to either capitulate or say nothing.

At which point being a Snitch/Informer became popular? Unless someone is a truly horrific person I do not believe many people think this "cancel culture" or outrage Mob is cool, justified or reasonable.
Also the new thing is now that being silent is not enough anymore either.
"Silence is Violence"
 :wtf:

Scary
As easy as paint by number.
 

Offline langwadt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1852
  • Country: dk
And the funny thing is they they will turn on each other without a moment's hesitation. You can be the most outspoken and strident modern SJW with all the right talking points for years..
This is baked in. The "correct" thing changes week by week, the internet remembers forever, and forgiveness, tolerance, and nuance are not permitted. Every single person's history is going to be out of line with the right-think-de-jour at some point, and the only think separating them from cancellation is whether someone is scanning their history on that day. Eventually they'll have some fancy system, with a cute name like "Orwell", to do the scanning automatically.
But dare to have one nuanced opinion that "they" don't like, and you are forced to grovel and appologise under threat of "cancellation".
That's not right. Any hint of apology will sink you completely, as its an admission. The few people who survive are the ones bold enough to say grow up.


https://youtu.be/JuvGRnetAv0
 

Online tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11708
  • Country: gb
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Decent people need to open their mouth and tell the loonies to fuck off or else you will go the way of the Pirate Party in Germany.
Ignoring the Issue wont make it go away.

Unfortunately decent and rational people with any sort of power or reach risk being "cancelled" if they do that. So it's easier to either capitulate or say nothing.

At which point being a Snitch/Informer became popular? Unless someone is a truly horrific person I do not believe many people think this "cancel culture" or outrage Mob is cool, justified or reasonable.

Look at how teenagers manage to form cliques which are mainly defined by who they exclude.

Now transpose that to adult society, and remove personal interaction, and remove personal responsibility.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline dunkemhigh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1901
Quote
Typical example is electric cars. Petrol heads poo poo them as being low performance

As a keen driver I poo poo electric cars, but for lack of distance and not poor performance. And Teslas for being fugly.

Sometimes the stereotypes assigned to people are the wrong ones, but if one isn't of their mindset it might never be realised.

[edit: damned apostrophe sneaked in]
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf