The other toxic co worker

[temperance]

And by going postal, I mean you losing your temper and start yelling profanities, throwing out office supplies, or any other emotional outburst. Those who lose their temper, lose their jobs.

Of course not. As Siwastaja wrote:

The correct actions are likely to either murder them, or run; any other option doesn't seem to work. I really suggest the latter. The former option works out when you are one of those dangerous psychopaths, too.

Not being the former, I choose the latter.

[Njk]

Well, it's a life and it can be eventful. One my former colleague was my compatriot and a former artillery officer. Actually, he's a good guy although too active and assertive. A lot of energy inside. He even joined the local amateur hockey team. Once on a business trip, we went outside to watch a natural phenomenon unique to that area. Soon he said that it's boring and we must go to the main street where all the night bars are located, to enjoy the social life. We spent some time there and then I'd decided to return to the hotel since there is nothing new and we have to be on the return flight tomorrow. But he continued the bar bouncing and missed the plane next morning. Another time, during the debugging session at the customer's site, he left prematurely because the hearing of his DUI case in court could not be re-scheduled. I had to deal with his part of the code I was not familiar with. Once I told him that I'm tired of his stupid initiatives and commanding attitude. We're not at his battery and he's not a hockey coach. It's no wonder his wife divorced him. And that from now on, I will see him following me one step behind and never ahead because now it's my turn to start telling him what to do. And that for a country boys like he, it's always better to be humble. That insulted him a lot and he stopped communications with me. Eventually, his dream became true, he bought a house, bought a pistol and invited all his numerous friends to a party at his new home. There he became drunk and started running around the house with the pistol in his hand. Next day, the police came to him and said that they'd received a report about a shooting in this area. If he knows anything about that, he's welcomed to tell them at any time. I don't know what to do with those guys. It's in the men's DNA. You can't turn a black cat white by washing him. A lot of conflicts are caused by personal incompatibility. It's not always clear, who's more toxic to whom.

[joeqsmith]

....I'm having my lunch, and he joins me. The conversation went a little like this: Do you know people from my country hate people from the country your wife is from? Long ago, he continued, we crossed the border and chopped their heads off. Especially women and children because they deserved. All that with the same arrogant schmuck on his face I saw before. What do you think about that, he asked me...

What would you have done in such a case?

Follow the news and you will find people who lost their lives over saying something less than making a threat to someones family.  Recently there was a stupid YoutTuber who was shot for harassing a person for views.   It was all captured on video and shooter was acquitted.

[joeqsmith]

The laws here vary state to state.  It would be good to know the local laws ahead of time if you did plan to take action. 

This was the case I previously mentioned.  This guy was armed with a cell phone.  He's physically large compared to the other guy and refused to back off.  I guess if your goal is to provoke people to get views, you need to expect that a certain number of them may have a low threshold. 
 

[5U4GB]

Eventually, his dream became true, he bought a house, bought a pistol and invited all his numerous friends to a party at his new home. There he became drunk and started running around the house with the pistol in his hand.

Rednecks are everywhere.  Some years ago a friend of mine who lives in rural Pennsylvania was outside with his Uzi trying to shoot down the moon.  He was unaware that there were still a few rounds in the clip and accidentally sprayed them across his kitchen cupboard when he got back inside.  The next day his cleaning lady came in, looked at the damage, said "9mm huh?" and went back to cleaning.

[Terry Bites]

The world is infested with infantile narcissists and their numbers are on the rise. In my lifetime I've seen an amazing breakdown of society and morality. I saw it go really bad when I was a kid in the late 60's and early 70's. What does that coincide with, could it be the snobbery of competetive consumerism? The rise of my car is my cock. They say if you havent stopped being a an adolescent twat by the time you're 27 then you never will. How true.

Advertising promotes “your way” as the core attraction, social media tailored to only what you believe in, a failure to tackle low level antisocial behaviour (aka complicity) toxic role models, "influencers" and the celebration of violence in our entertainment industry all contributing to this freak show.  Not only has the wool be pulled over our eyes but it plays jingle bells when you rub your face up against it. And now we have people who believe in nothing and can be persuaded to believe in anything. Idiocracy. Also the title of a prophetic B movie well worth watching. Being disgusted by Putin, Trump, Netanyahu and thier pals isn't politics, its taking the appropriate position to protect our dignity and decency. There is no "other side" to the story, just wickedness.

My first EE job was with a small company. They made systems for railway signalling and power plant control. So, mission critical stuff. I worked with the draughtsman to ensure that the plans matched the scrappy sketches we were given. There were four senior engineers who all truly loathed each other. At the core was a dangerous person who had a scary arrogant and delusional personality. He was never wrong even when he had severely fucked up. He used to pin people up against the toilet wall and threaten violence to anyone who disagreed with him. “Oh well, that’s just Matt” our manger used to say……  This guy stank like death too. An evil pig. Hi Matt if you're on the blog! I moved on after a couple of months of this shit. I got a much better paying job and I recall saying to my young wife "At least I won’t have to work with crazy people anymore". Hah! How wrong I was. Next, I worked in power plant coms and instrumentation. Megalomaniacs and thugs galore in this industry.

It’s not unfair to say that there are lot of engineers who are more than a little disturbed and socially dysfunctional. We have above average membership.  Aspergers, “neurodiversity” etc. are very common in our business. Not to speak ill of the dead (and some of the living) but many of our engineering and science heroes belong in the worst of the worsts rogue’s gallery.

Horrible people abound, I haven’t known many people who can say that they did not have to contend with at least one vile coworker. There are lot of type c-units in this world. Most people want to attain a higher social status and sadly lots of of them think that stepping on the face of other’s is how you do that. The thoughtless pursuit of power corrupts. I have a very long list of offenders from my places of work. Thank God I’m retired and I only have to deal with nutjobs in the family. I’m sure that’s reciprocated! I come from a working-class background and I still unashamedly speak in that vernacular. I am of generation X. I’ve often been the subject of unpleasant presumptions about my attitudes. Classism. Just the other day I heard a guy saying “of course, we were all racist misogynists back in the 70s”. I called him out saying that “we” was not the word he was searching for and that “I” was more appropriate. Arsehole.  I always call it out now I don't give a solitary what these poeple think of me. I am shocked that people of all ages races and genders people feel that we oldies are happy to hear their shocking and disgusting confessions. Racism, sexism and religious hate being top on the agenda of course. And all of this hate inevitably being transacted along a two-way street. There are plenty who believe that their traditional (unexamined) group prejudices are normal, justifiable and that anyone who mentions it is a hater. Any fool can see this is and excuse for the true haters but it has politicians and the media running sacred. Thats a symtom of vanity.

And my pet hate. Theatre and film crews, delusional arseholes unlimited.

[joeqsmith]

He used to pin people up against the toilet wall and threaten violence to anyone who disagreed with him.

You guys have some good stories.  I've never heard of anything even close to this going on where I have worked.

[fourfathom]

He used to pin people up against the toilet wall and threaten violence to anyone who disagreed with him.

You guys have some good stories.  I've never heard of anything even close to this going on where I have worked.

Nor have I, at least not to that level. 

I've had a boss who was ignorant and kept screwing up my designs after I released them, but that wasn't him being evil, just stupid.  At a different company there was one software engineer who had delusions of adequacy, and a truly toxic personality.  We eventually had to fire him, but he went on to start another competing company with millions in venture funding.  His new company crashed and burned in a spectacular manner, with him being led out of the building in handcuffs.  He could talk a good story and be persuasive, for a while.

Some of the bad problems related above are probably due to what I would call "old company disease", where deadwood employees accumulate which gradually drives out the competent ones.  Unless there is a cataclysmic change this process feeds on itself and only gets worse.  I wasn't a job-hopper, and typically stayed at a company for at least five years, but I wasn't afraid to look for a better job when I could see the writing on the wall.  My last two jobs were start-ups, which almost by definition don't have under-performers or toxic people (at least not for very long).  The company that acquired my last start-up has a policy of firing / retiring / laying-off the bottom 10% every year, even when growing.  This can be done badly and is painful, but when done right can avoid much of the old company disease.  But this requires good management from top to bottom, and that's far from guaranteed.

My advice to the OP: Get out. (I think he did, and good!)  At my first tech job I was fired (not for lack of competence, but because of office politics).  I had a better job within a week, and this calibrated my thinking about the employee-employer relationship.  Do your best and be ethical, but the company has their own priorities and your welfare is pretty far down on the list.  You've got a job, not a marriage, and it's not "till death do us part".  If you don't like the trajectory you're on you need to change it.  It's not your job to save the company from themselves.

[Kasper]

I supervised a really difficult person once. 

For example, she was using a label maker and had dropped about 100 pieces of backing paper on the floor beside the trash can. I asked why and she said that's the janitor's job.

After about a year, she complained about me and refused to work with me.

Boss gave me a hard time and gave her a new supervisor.  A month later she quit.  I asked the boss to retract their statements as clearly, I was not the problem.  I lasted 12 times longer with her than the other supervisor did, and he'd been there a long time and had a good reputation.

I quit not too long after that.  Worst place I ever worked, quitting was probably the best career move I have made.  If your boss can't detect and remove pyschos, they probably aren't a good boss.

[5U4GB]

Some of the bad problems related above are probably due to what I would call "old company disease", where deadwood employees accumulate which gradually drives out the competent ones.  Unless there is a cataclysmic change this process feeds on itself and only gets worse. 

For a neverending supply of (usually) amusing war stories about this sort of thing, I can recommend The Daily WTF (as well as be glad this site doesn't run censor-happy filters that won't even allow you to post the letters "wtf" like another site I can think of).  Endless stories about "Bob has been with us for years, he runs our $thing on his personal PC running Windows 3.1 and we're not going to change that".

[5U4GB]

I quit not too long after that.  Worst place I ever worked, quitting was probably the best career move I have made.  If your boss can't detect and remove pyschos, they probably aren't a good boss.

Friend of mine just resigned after her boss gave her a written warning about her poor time management when she had to keep working late to deal with the 150% workload she was given.  After she'd resigned a bunch of her coworkers asked how much notice was required (zero) since they were all thinking of resigning too.

That's one important thing to ask in any job interview, what's your employee turnover, optional "in the last 12 months" / "in the department I'll be working in".  If it's more than a few people (depending on the size of the group) then don't even bother with the interview.  I know several people who have resigned from their jobs due to toxic work environments and in most cases the turnover was ongoing, in one case at one point a leaving function was almost a weekly event.

[Kasper]

That's one important thing to ask in any job interview, what's your employee turnover, optional "in the last 12 months" / "in the department I'll be working in".  If it's more than a few people (depending on the size of the group) then don't even bother with the interview.  I know several people who have resigned from their jobs due to toxic work environments and in most cases the turnover was ongoing, in one case at one point a leaving function was almost a weekly event.

That's a good one.  I often ask "how did this position become available?  Are you growing or replacing?"  I like your question more though.  It is similar to employers looking at how long applicants stay at each job on their resume.   

Would you dare to ask for references of three of their recent employees?

[Bud]

Do not challenge the hiring manager with these sort of asks, there usually is a line up of candidates, the managers do not have time to play your games and will just move over to the next one.

[SteveThackery]

If your boss can't detect and remove pyschos, they probably aren't a good boss.

Actually I don't really agree. Psychopaths are brilliant at manipulating people, and they always charm the boss so they can backstab their colleagues. I had a colleague - a psychopath - who was an absolute bastard, but the boss thought the world of him. He cheerfully undermined his colleagues to the boss, essentially destroying their professional reputation.  I think relatively few bosses can tell when they are being "handled" by an accomplished psychopath.

There's another factor, which might be controversial, but I'll say it anyway. I've observed that male colleagues can spot a psychopath pretty easily (especially as they are usually the victim of the psychopath's backstabbing), but it seems that, by and large, women cannot spot them. Indeed, women often find them attractive (especially when the women are young). It appears to be biological; psychopaths are often alpha males, plus they can "charm" a woman in a way that feels entirely authentic. It is only later, when the woman has got hitched to the man and become dependent on him, that he drops the facade and becomes controlling and abusive. This is a story that is all too common.

So, if your boss is a woman, she may be even more vulnerable to the charm offensive directed at her by the office psychopath.

[5U4GB]

Actually I don't really agree. Psychopaths are brilliant at manipulating people, and they always charm the boss so they can backstab their colleagues. I had a colleague - a psychopath - who was an absolute bastard, but the boss thought the world of him. He cheerfully undermined his colleagues to the boss, essentially destroying their professional reputation.  I think relatively few bosses can tell when they are being "handled" by an accomplished psychopath.

If you've never experienced a psychopath being manipulative it can be hard to understand just how good they are at this.  A psychopath will convince you that black is white even when you know it isn't.  Robert Hare, who created the principal diagnostic test for psychopathy, once gave a talk where he mentioned sending final-year psychology students into prisons to talk to psychopaths, so convicted murderers and the like.  A lot of them came back convinced the person had been wrongly convicted.  These were trained professionals who knew what they were dealing with, and they were still fooled, so imagine how hard Joe Sixpack would find it.

[Siwastaja]

If your boss can't detect and remove pyschos, they probably aren't a good boss.

Actually I don't really agree. Psychopaths are brilliant at manipulating people, and they always charm the boss so they can backstab their colleagues.

Exactly, which is why I would give bosses some slack (in many cases), and say "if your boss can't detect and remove psychos, they probably aren't an exceptionally good boss."

[Kasper]

If your boss can't detect and remove pyschos, they probably aren't a good boss.

Actually I don't really agree. Psychopaths are brilliant at manipulating people, and they always charm the boss so they can backstab their colleagues.

Exactly, which is why I would give bosses some slack (in many cases), and say "if your boss can't detect and remove psychos, they probably aren't an exceptionally good boss."

I approve this wording change.

I think bosses should be very critical of anyone who is trashing their coworkers but I do agree pyschos can be quite charming.

[SteveThackery]

I think bosses should be very critical of anyone who is trashing their coworkers but I do agree pyschos can be quite charming.

Indeed, but it is almost never "trashing" - it is usually much subtler.  Anyway, I'm sure the OP has got the message!

[Kasper]

In the next weeks, he reviewed some of my work and wrote extensive e-mails to our management pointing out each and every mistake he could find. So I now have to go and defend myself with management over things which are irrelevant, like solder mask definitions in gerber files and other practices for which exist many ways to achieve the same thing.

I went to my manager and asked if I could fire this guy after those events. But they told me they need people and don't want to fire anyone at this moment. That's when I left the company.

I think bosses should be very critical of anyone who is trashing their coworkers but I do agree pyschos can be quite charming.

Indeed, but it is almost never "trashing" - it is usually much subtler.  Anyway, I'm sure the OP has got the message!

There are some subtle ones but in temperance's case, and in the one I shared, they were not subtle.

Often it starts subtle before they make their attack but in both cases, their attack was not subtle and the boss still fell for it.

In my case, that was the worst boss I have had and this was just one of their many mistakes.