Author Topic: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR  (Read 2622 times)

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« on: March 30, 2020, 10:19:56 pm »
https://blog.adafruit.com/2020/03/30/medtronic-shares-ventilation-design-specifications-to-accelerate-efforts-to-increase-global-ventilator-production-medtronic/

Link ( no registration version ) : https://www.medtronic.com/us-en/e/open-files/thank-you.html

Quote
More documents pertaining to the PB560 ventilator system will be available here soon.
Yeah right - believe it when I see it. Why release an incomplete set of docs other than for free publicity?

BTW there is a 555 timer in there !
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Online thm_w

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2020, 10:34:07 pm »
Still cool to take a look at the schematics, even if the rest of the stuff is never released.
 

Online free_electron

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2020, 10:40:19 pm »
hey, you got the source ... just like so many other 'open source' projects ... half document , unworkable , not turnkey , and in a format that no machine can read , or using obsolete cad systems
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Offline m98

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2020, 11:16:20 pm »
Better than I thought. Especially the requirements documents are probably the most important base for someone wanting to create a derived product.
The schematics are about as simple as expected, so unless you wanted to make a 1:1 clone, it's not a big deal to recreate the PCBs. Rewriting the software is probably the bigger challenge, in the very likely case they don't release their source code.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2020, 11:22:41 pm »
https://blog.adafruit.com/2020/03/30/medtronic-shares-ventilation-design-specifications-to-accelerate-efforts-to-increase-global-ventilator-production-medtronic/

Link ( no registration version ) : https://www.medtronic.com/us-en/e/open-files/thank-you.html

Quote
More documents pertaining to the PB560 ventilator system will be available here soon.
Yeah right - believe it when I see it. Why release an incomplete set of docs other than for free publicity?

BTW there is a 555 timer in there !
Why the cynicism? Who pissed in your corn flakes this morning?

Who cares what their motivations are, if what they are doing is clearly a good thing?

Of all the things to get your panties in a twist about, this one just doesn't make sense.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2020, 11:23:17 pm »
Better than I thought. Especially the requirements documents are probably the most important base for someone wanting to create a derived product.
The schematics are about as simple as expected, so unless you wanted to make a 1:1 clone, it's not a big deal to recreate the PCBs. Rewriting the software is probably the bigger challenge, in the very likely case they don't release their source code.
The press release (quoted in the first link) plainly says "The PB 560 design specifications are available today, software code and other information will follow shortly."
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2020, 11:24:56 pm »
My partner's uncle works for Medtronic. I'd ask him except with all this stuff that's going on I'm not sure when we'll have an opportunity to see him next.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2020, 02:49:34 pm »
https://blog.adafruit.com/2020/03/30/medtronic-shares-ventilation-design-specifications-to-accelerate-efforts-to-increase-global-ventilator-production-medtronic/

Link ( no registration version ) : https://www.medtronic.com/us-en/e/open-files/thank-you.html

Quote
More documents pertaining to the PB560 ventilator system will be available here soon.
Yeah right - believe it when I see it. Why release an incomplete set of docs other than for free publicity?

BTW there is a 555 timer in there !
Why the cynicism? Who pissed in your corn flakes this morning?

Who cares what their motivations are, if what they are doing is clearly a good thing?

Of all the things to get your panties in a twist about, this one just doesn't make sense.
Even if they publish absolutely everything , it would still be impractical for anyone to tool up to manufacture, and a huge financial risk.
Why would they only release what is the least useful info, rather than everything in one go? They're just throwing out enough to hook some journalists to get some favorable publcity, and I expect they will quietly forget about publishing any more.
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Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 
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Online free_electron

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2020, 03:05:54 pm »
Also note that the cpu is probably long obsolete. if i recall the ST10 family was discontinued in 2008 ...
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Online Cyberdragon

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2020, 04:00:09 pm »
Building your own homebrew ventilator is easy. ;D



Actual medical grade devices are another story...::)

EDIT: I didn't even see the DIY ventilator thread...so you guys already know the drill then.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 04:04:14 pm by Cyberdragon »
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Offline bushjavier

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2020, 09:10:21 pm »
Please check the website again!!!!!!  they are releasing more files, the say more to come. The new release come with a lot of mechanical stuff and PCBs.

Medtronic PB560 Ventilator System – Release 2.0 (.zip)
Includes:

Manufacturing fixtures
Printed circuit board drawings (including multiple BOMs)
3D CAD files
Mechanical part drawings

 :D
 
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Offline bushjavier

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2020, 09:15:03 pm »
Please check the new files, perhaps they will continue releasing more files they say that in the website, i thing this is more "open source" with a lot of mechanical data and PCB and BOM.!!!!


https://blog.adafruit.com/2020/03/30/medtronic-shares-ventilation-design-specifications-to-accelerate-efforts-to-increase-global-ventilator-production-medtronic/

Link ( no registration version ) : https://www.medtronic.com/us-en/e/open-files/thank-you.html

Quote
More documents pertaining to the PB560 ventilator system will be available here soon.
Yeah right - believe it when I see it. Why release an incomplete set of docs other than for free publicity?

BTW there is a 555 timer in there !
Why the cynicism? Who pissed in your corn flakes this morning?

Who cares what their motivations are, if what they are doing is clearly a good thing?

Of all the things to get your panties in a twist about, this one just doesn't make sense.
Even if they publish absolutely everything , it would still be impractical for anyone to tool up to manufacture, and a huge financial risk.
Why would they only release what is the least useful info, rather than everything in one go? They're just throwing out enough to hook some journalists to get some favorable publcity, and I expect they will quietly forget about publishing any more.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2020, 09:59:36 pm »
Link on the site now bounces back to the registration page - has anyone got to the new files 
yet?
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Offline MasterBuilder

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« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 10:44:20 pm by MasterBuilder »
 
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Offline rgarito

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2020, 03:10:34 am »
That looks a lot more promising.  Still obsolete parts but much better than what they originally released.  Firmware source code would be really telling...
 

Online tom66

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2020, 07:16:18 am »
Perhaps they are reviewing their code before releasing it.  Checking what licences allow public disclosure for instance.  At a previous employer we wanted to release software from a product as open source but we couldn't get the licence to do so from one of our IP suppliers.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2020, 10:06:26 am »
Even if they publish absolutely everything , it would still be impractical for anyone to tool up to manufacture, and a huge financial risk.
I think the whole point is that with modern 3D printing and CNC machining, you don’t have any tooling to make, which is why numerous people were working on open-source versions.

Why would they only release what is the least useful info, rather than everything in one go?
I can think of two reasons:
1. third-party intellectual property. It’s highly likely that they used third-party software components (that being a very common thing, as tom66 also says above), so they have to secure distribution rights for those components. And even if they didn’t actually use any, they’d still need to review the code to make sure they don’t. Similarly, their CAD drawings might have used 3D models of components provided by the component manufacturers, again requiring legal review to make sure they’re allowed to share them, even if integrated into their own design.
 
2. Finding and/or converting files. Now, I have never done anything CAD (aside from absolute basic PCB design), so this is purely speculation based on how things are in most disciplines, but it’s quite possible that the 15 year old source files needed to be converted to a current format. And that’s assuming they had them sitting on a server ready to go. But it’s very possible they were archived on a tape or hard drive somewhere, and someone had to dig them up. Wouldn’t be the first time that a company had the documentation at hand, but nobody remembered where the engineering files/source code was.

Given that they’d said that they “will” release the files, not “might”, my guess is that they already had them at hand, but had to put them through legal review first.

They're just throwing out enough to hook some journalists to get some favorable publcity, and I expect they will quietly forget about publishing any more.
Again, they didn’t say they “might” release the files, they used the word “will”. Had they failed to do so, the negative press would no doubt have been (justifiably) vicious.

What I don’t understand is your (and then Dave’s) vicious attack on them before even giving them a chance to keep their word, which in the meantime, they have done.

And to be clear, I’m not suggesting that they aren’t doing this for publicity. But as I said before, if what they do ends up being a good thing, who cares if the motivation isn’t selfless? We can approve of this one action without approving of the company’s other behavior.
 
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Offline José.jmaacc

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2020, 03:24:38 pm »
did you guy took a look at this : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/compatible-microcontroler/
might give you an insight into the medtronics post
I think I need to create another post explaining the idea even further
 

Online Cyberdragon

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2020, 08:51:17 pm »
That looks a lot more promising.  Still obsolete parts but much better than what they originally released.

Medical equipment (especially life support gear), can take years to get properly cerified. Also, the parts used have to be tested and approved already for medical purposes. It's not uncommon to see older parts in medical equipment.
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Online 1Ghz

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Offline amyk

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2020, 02:18:37 am »
ST10F is nothing like PIC10F (or STC10F), if that's what you were thinking of...

https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/st10f276e.pdf

16-bit core, 832K(?) flash, 68K(?) RAM, lot of peripherals, 144-pin package.
 

Offline José.jmaacc

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2020, 02:25:29 am »
aren't you guys slightly worried that the sharing of all this information might create clones that don't work properly and can NOT be identified as clones? It can result in both genuine and clones to be ALL removed from medical centers.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2020, 02:41:08 am »
I would hope that the companies making clones would brand them as their own. I mean this isn't the sort of thing someone is going to build in their garage, it's going to be decent sized companies that are hopefully trustworthy. During WWII we had all sorts of companies building airplanes, there were competitors to Boeing that were building B-17s and other aircraft, nobody worried that these "clones" were defective or improperly made. We needed as many planes as possible and didn't have the luxury of worrying about that.

Whatever the case I think this is pretty cool. I don't mind if they get some PR out of the deal, they're allowed to do that and I'm not going to fault them for giving away their IP for free. If nothing else it provides an interesting view into how these machines work.
 
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Online tom66

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Re: Medtronics' "open source ventilator" bullshit PR
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2020, 07:01:28 am »
At least reading the source code doesn't make me feel so bad about some of my messy code.  This is medical device software with comments mixed in French and English, global variables everywhere (with no management over who reads or writes what), mixed tab and space use, spelling errors and undocumented constants.

But I agree it's pretty cool that they've now released the source, I'd say you pretty much have everything you need. Sourcing that old ST processor will probably be the hardest part.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 07:03:41 am by tom66 »
 
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