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Mess with your minds: A wind powered craft going faster than a tail wind speed.

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gnuarm:
This has long since stopped being a technical discussion and has become a psychological interview.  I'm very interested in understanding ED's motivation. 

It could just be troll baiting, trying to keep this thread going as long as possible. 

It could be that he really does think he is the only person to understand this issue.  Clearly he is wrong and so either is not capable of understanding the real issues or is just playing with us. 

Orrrr... he might know he is wrong, but figures as long as he is not forced to admit it, he isn't technically wrong. 

Hmmm.... I wonder which it is.

fourfathom:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on December 28, 2021, 08:19:33 pm ---So the full equation for the power applied to the vehicle through the wheels is
0.5 * air density * area * (wind speed - vehicle speed)² * vehicle speed
--- End quote ---

Are you sure about that?  When wind speed = vehicle speed, that equation still reduces to zero.

Labrat101:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on December 28, 2021, 08:39:48 pm ---This has long since stopped being a technical discussion and has become a psychological interview.  I'm very interested in understanding ED's motivation. 

It could just be troll baiting, trying to keep this thread going as long as possible. 


--- End quote ---
YES this exactly what he is doing . I mentioned that he was doing this about 10 pages back .
 Every one is getting sucked into some sort of weird elusions of trying to convince him.
     ED =  :-DD                    US = this       |O |O |O |O |O

gnuarm:
I don't care about the wind power.  This equation was being tossed about when there seemed to be a discrepancy of whether the power to move a vehicle falls to zero when the vehicle approaches a zero velocity.  To determine that, the force is required which is

0.5 * air density * area * (wind speed - vehicle speed)²

This is the force provided by the wind which must then be applied by the wheels to move the vehicle at a speed in the face of the wind.  To find the power that must be applied to the vehicle you multiply by the relative speed of the vehicle and the point applying the force, the ground, or "vehicle speed".  The equation for the applied power then becomes

0.5 * air density * area * (wind speed - vehicle speed)² * (vehicle speed)

There's no point in shifting the conversation to rivers or moats or spacecraft.  We are talking about a ground vehicle in the wind.  Your equation is for power in the wind and the wind alone and has nothing to do with the power required to move the vehicle. 

Until you understand your mistake here, you have no possibility of understanding the blackbird.  You really need to listen to those who are trying to help you understand.  This is not a battle, this is your friends who want to see you succeed in learning the correct way to understand this issue. 

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on December 28, 2021, 08:39:48 pm ---This has long since stopped being a technical discussion and has become a psychological interview.  I'm very interested in understanding ED's motivation. 

It could just be troll baiting, trying to keep this thread going as long as possible. 

It could be that he really does think he is the only person to understand this issue.  Clearly he is wrong and so either is not capable of understanding the real issues or is just playing with us. 

Orrrr... he might know he is wrong, but figures as long as he is not forced to admit it, he isn't technically wrong. 

Hmmm.... I wonder which it is.

--- End quote ---

I have no intention for this to continue in fact my goal is to get this done as soon as possible.
I'm sure not the only person understanding this as many product designs depend on using the correct equation.
I work in the field where understanding power and energy is super important (I designed my own wind turbine) and my business is in the renewable energy storage thus I investigated all energy storage sources including but not limited to eletrochemical energy storage, kinetic energy storage and thermal energy storage.
There will always be people that do not understand some parts of physics and I will not get bothered by this particular problem if it was not such a wide spread misinformation involving science communicators and university professors. 

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