General > General Technical Chat
Mess with your minds: A wind powered craft going faster than a tail wind speed.
cgroen:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 30, 2021, 08:50:18 am ---
--- Quote from: cgroen on December 30, 2021, 08:45:43 am ---
Repeating something that is wrong over and over and over does not make it right.
I'm extremely impressed with the knowledgeable people here that tries again and again to make you realize that you are soooo wrong. It takes an impressive amount of patience to do what they do.
Now, I could handle it if you were "just wrong", but the "god-like" way you try to convince people about that they are wrong and you are right "because you say so", is really something that turns my stomach around |O
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry if you can not understand complex dynamic interactions. The only way it will convince you is a test.
Tho even with a test you may not understand what happens as I showed a very clear example for the direct upwind version and people still try to find some other alternative explanations of what happens when it seems super clear what it happens there.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for confirming my post :palm:
Brumby:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 30, 2021, 04:54:34 am ---
--- Quote from: Brumby on December 30, 2021, 04:52:09 am ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 28, 2021, 09:44:37 pm ---"extra thrust" ? You get that vehicle is only powered by wind ? There is no extra thrust and all the thrust as in the case of a sail is provided by the wind.
--- End quote ---
But the propeller is spinning. A spinning propeller pushes air. This is called thrust and it must exist in the local region around the propeller. Surely this thrust has an effect when applied to the surrounding air.
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If propeller has no input power or if the input power is taken from the output power (always smaller than input) then vehicle will just slow down and not accelerate.
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You skipped over the question.
I asked about the interaction between this thrust and the surrounding air.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Brumby on December 30, 2021, 09:06:02 am ---You skipped over the question.
I asked about the interaction between this thrust and the surrounding air.
--- End quote ---
There is nothing skipped.
Propeller will create a pressure differential thus energy is being stored.
After vehicle exceeds wind speed this stored pressure differential is the only thing powering the vehicle.
When this pressure differential drops below the level that it can cover the vehicle friction losses the vehicle will start to slow down.
All the energy that vehicle is using is provided by the wind before vehicle exceeds wind speed since above wind speed there is no longer any wind power available.
MikeP:
Friends, I found this thread by accident. There appears to be no consensus. 54 pages is beyond my strength, but I saw the film. This is incredible! New horizons are before us!
Unfortunately, I still have questions. First of all - the car moves faster than the wind, that is, it moves in the oncoming air flow ?! Tell me, why is this impossible with complete calm? After some initial impulse, of course. No, no, a perpetual motion machine is impossible.
And one more thing, it seems to me that the ribbon (speed indicator) is in the aerodynamic shadow (or inside the vortex) and much lower than the propeller, where the wind is slower.
Finally, regarding the background for the invention. Under certain conditions, the movement of a sailboat at an angle to the wind can have a higher speed than the wind. But not in the direction the wind is blowing!
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: MikeP on December 30, 2021, 09:13:34 am --- Friends, I found this thread by accident. There appears to be no consensus. 54 pages is beyond my strength, but I saw the film. This is incredible! New horizons are before us!
Unfortunately, I still have questions. First of all - the car moves faster than the wind, that is, it moves in the oncoming air flow ?! Tell me, why is this impossible with complete calm? After some initial impulse, of course. No, no, a perpetual motion machine is impossible.
And one more thing, it seems to me that the ribbon (speed indicator) is in the aerodynamic shadow (or inside the vortex) and much lower than the propeller, where the wind is slower.
Finally, regarding the background for the invention. Under certain conditions, the movement of a sailboat at an angle to the wind can have a higher speed than the wind. But not in the direction the wind is blowing!
--- End quote ---
What film have you seen ? The one made by Derek / Veritasium ?
It is not impossible as demonstrated to drive faster than wind direct down wind but the way that happens is by storing energy before exceeding wind speed and then using that stored energy to exceed wind speed for a limited amount of time.
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