General > General Technical Chat
Mess with your minds: A wind powered craft going faster than a tail wind speed.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: lordium on December 29, 2021, 08:53:18 am ---@electrodacus,
Is it possible to get an summary from start to finish about why it is impossible?
Examples and illustrations along to way would be helpful so that I can follow all the steps.
I'm really struggling to follow the thought process here. Guess I'm not smart enough. So please put it as plainly as possible.
--- End quote ---
This is exactly what happens when people try to talk to Andrea Rossi about his "eCAT" LENR heat generator (cold fusion). He baffles and confuses everyone he talks to. When he gets someone too sophisticated to be confused, he cuts off all communication with them. That's where ED differs. He keeps talking and talking and talking allowing everyone to see how bad his ideas are.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: Labrat101 on December 29, 2021, 12:35:13 pm ---@ electrodacus
Your Forum is also full of stupid answers .. Now you have plagued us with your stupidity of Not seeing what is true life Working .
If it works don't brake it . Your Maths is no better than a 1st grader . Just picking up numbers @ random will never solve this .
Nor will you ever learn . and worst still your not willing to learn .
As hard as it is for you to except you are making a terrible mistake .
Maybe it would have been a wise questions to ask what are our Degree's :popcorn:
--- End quote ---
One of the things many people don't pick up on is that he never says you can't go downwind faster than the wind. He says you can't do it without "storage and release" of energy. That energy comes from the wind, so it doesn't matter at all if it is stored and released. It is still powered only by the wind.
The crazy part of what he says is that the blackbird can't maintain the motion for any length of time while we have seen it travel for some hundreds of yards and continue to accelerate. ED wishes to deny this simply because no one has gone a hundred miles with the wind. ED has failed to provide a distance that would prove the blackbird can travel on the "stored" energy. So there is no way to prove him wrong by experiment. Even if someone traveled from the Pacific to the Atlantic he would claim it was running on energy stored in the pressurized area behind the sail. In reality that would probably only power the craft for a second if the wind abruptly stopped. Otherwise it would just be momentum.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: Brumby on December 30, 2021, 09:06:02 am ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 30, 2021, 04:54:34 am ---
--- Quote from: Brumby on December 30, 2021, 04:52:09 am ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 28, 2021, 09:44:37 pm ---"extra thrust" ? You get that vehicle is only powered by wind ? There is no extra thrust and all the thrust as in the case of a sail is provided by the wind.
--- End quote ---
But the propeller is spinning. A spinning propeller pushes air. This is called thrust and it must exist in the local region around the propeller. Surely this thrust has an effect when applied to the surrounding air.
--- End quote ---
If propeller has no input power or if the input power is taken from the output power (always smaller than input) then vehicle will just slow down and not accelerate.
--- End quote ---
You skipped over the question.
I asked about the interaction between this thrust and the surrounding air.
--- End quote ---
And he will continue to skip answering and other evasions.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: MikeP on December 30, 2021, 09:13:34 am --- Friends, I found this thread by accident. There appears to be no consensus. 54 pages is beyond my strength, but I saw the film. This is incredible! New horizons are before us!
Unfortunately, I still have questions. First of all - the car moves faster than the wind, that is, it moves in the oncoming air flow ?! Tell me, why is this impossible with complete calm? After some initial impulse, of course. No, no, a perpetual motion machine is impossible.
And one more thing, it seems to me that the ribbon (speed indicator) is in the aerodynamic shadow (or inside the vortex) and much lower than the propeller, where the wind is slower.
Finally, regarding the background for the invention. Under certain conditions, the movement of a sailboat at an angle to the wind can have a higher speed than the wind. But not in the direction the wind is blowing!
--- End quote ---
Tacking is normally used for going upwind where any movement is considered good and there's no expectation of going faster than the wind.
Interesting to note the sail boat is much more effective if the sail is shaped like an airfoil generating lift. Likewise it is the airfoil on the propellers that allow the car to travel upwind. The wind resistance is low compared to the force generated by the propeller driving the wheels because the angle of the blades is nearly parallel with the wind. The lift of the airfoil is what provides the force that rotates the propeller and therefore the wheels.
It is a very simple process once it is properly understood. The trick is not fooling yourself into thinking it is more complicated than it really is as some people seem to be quite able to do. Stored energy indeed!
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 30, 2021, 09:23:11 am ---
--- Quote from: MikeP on December 30, 2021, 09:13:34 am --- Friends, I found this thread by accident. There appears to be no consensus. 54 pages is beyond my strength, but I saw the film. This is incredible! New horizons are before us!
Unfortunately, I still have questions. First of all - the car moves faster than the wind, that is, it moves in the oncoming air flow ?! Tell me, why is this impossible with complete calm? After some initial impulse, of course. No, no, a perpetual motion machine is impossible.
And one more thing, it seems to me that the ribbon (speed indicator) is in the aerodynamic shadow (or inside the vortex) and much lower than the propeller, where the wind is slower.
Finally, regarding the background for the invention. Under certain conditions, the movement of a sailboat at an angle to the wind can have a higher speed than the wind. But not in the direction the wind is blowing!
--- End quote ---
What film have you seen ? The one made by Derek / Veritasium ?
It is not impossible as demonstrated to drive faster than wind direct down wind but the way that happens is by storing energy before exceeding wind speed and then using that stored energy to exceed wind speed for a limited amount of time.
--- End quote ---
Yes, limited by the lifetime of the universe maybe. It's so funny that this guy insists on taking his position in spite of evidence against it and insisting that the entire body of scientific knowledge is wrong in the process! This guy would have manned the ramparts at the Alamo and continued fighting even after he was dead!
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