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Mess with your minds: A wind powered craft going faster than a tail wind speed.
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Alex Eisenhut:
One thing's for sure, if we could harness the energy/force/power of this thread, that craft would still be accelerating now..
electrodacus:
We are going in circles.

As I mentioned the big misconception for you is to think that a treadmill is the same thing with a dragged piece of paper and that is not the case.
Until that is proven it will be useless to continue the discussion.

In the airplane example there are two energy sources plane and human and on top of that travel is done in a single medium. There is no analogy to be made there.

Yes in my diagram there is only one source of power and that is the treadmill witch is also stationary compared to ground unlike the dragged paper.
In ideal vehicle as long as you do not take any power from the treadmill trough the generator wheel the vehicle will not move then if you take power from the generator wheel and put all that in to motor wheel the vehicle will also not move.
Since in real world you can not put all the generated power from generator wheel in to Motor wheel the vehicle will be moved from right to left by the treadmill.

Think about in 3 different steps
a) Treadmill only rotationg at 4m/s
b) Treadmill rotating at 2m/s and also pushed at 2m/s
c) Treadmill not rotating and pushed at 4m/s

You think there will be no difference between the 3 cases ?
In case b) can instead of pushing the treadmill form right to left at 2m/s push the table form left to right at 2m/s. Will that not be the same thing ?
Alex Eisenhut:
Put a stationary bowling ball on a OFF treadmill belt. Put another stationary bowling ball on a stationary rug.

With me so far? Do you need a diagram?
electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on September 02, 2021, 05:36:34 pm ---Put a stationary bowling ball on a OFF treadmill belt. Put another stationary bowling ball on a stationary rug.

With me so far? Do you need a diagram?

--- End quote ---

See what I just posted a few seconds before you.
We are talking about a vehicle between two different mediums not a vehicle on a single medium.
IanB:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 02, 2021, 05:22:57 pm ---As I mentioned the big misconception for you is to think that a treadmill is the same thing with a dragged piece of paper and that is not the case.
--- End quote ---

The top of the treadmill is a flat surface moving from right to left under the front wheels of the cart, relative to a stationary surface on which the back wheels rest.
The piece of paper        is a flat surface moving from right to left under the front wheels of the cart, relative to a stationary surface on which the back wheels rest.

Explain where is the difference between these two cases?
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