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| Mess with your minds: A wind powered craft going faster than a tail wind speed. |
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| Labrat101:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 02, 2021, 09:15:40 pm --- --- Quote from: Labrat101 on September 02, 2021, 09:06:20 pm ---On the video with the bet for 10K with the professor.. Derek wins the Bet and get the 10K .. So Why cant every one understand . This works its been proven to work . and the concept is quite simple . You just have to think out of the BOX . The same as the aeroplane cant take off from a rolling road . and a Zeppelin Can not fly faster than tail wind because it flies in 1 (ONE medium air) Need two . But can burn faster with a good tail wind :-DD --- End quote --- Neither the professor or Derek understood how vehicle works. Bet was that vehicle can or can not exceed wind speed and Derek proved to professor with the treadmill prototype that vehicle can exceed wind speed. Since neither of them seen the energy storage device that I call pressure differential they where not able to understand how the vehicle works. I do not claim that Blackbird vehicle can not exceed wind speed as based on my theory it works exactly the same as shown in tests. What I claim is that stored energy is used for that and so if test will have been long enough the slow down will have been seen. You seem to be the most intelligent here so I'm sure you will be able to get what I'm saying. Here is my wheel only analogy first without energy storage so vehicle can not move from left to right And second with energy storage the spiral spring that emulates the air pressure differential. The spring connects the motor to the wheel This one with the spiral spring (same as you get on a measure tape) will work exactly like the propeller based treadmill model in Derek's video. --- End quote --- First as far as I am concerned Professors are just people who think up a theory that is impossible to solve . so some one will sponsor them to solve a problem that will take a 100 years and they get a Lab full of really cool equipment costing $MB get a great wage and live happy ever after on BS . Just like the convener belt . It has more questions than answers . Bit like the riddle .. Have a 2 meter round pond with a Frog dead in the middle, How far does the frog have to jump to leave the pond area ??? . . Well . no prize for getting it right @ yes I understand or what you are Getting at . Oh and a spring is kinetic energy a propeller is not .. Forget the the conveyor you are confusing yourself and thinking on the wrong lines . nice drawing .. But does not prove any thing sorry you have missed the real concept as i did try to explain how it works but .. maybe in another life time |
| iMo:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 02, 2021, 09:18:58 pm --- --- Quote from: imo on September 02, 2021, 09:09:16 pm ---How could the Blackbird's propeller take the power from the wheels? Where the "power of the wheels" comes from? For both Zeppelin and Blackbird the only source of energy I can see is the tail wind.. --- End quote --- Yes exactly the right question. Below wind speed power at the wheel comes from wind and above wind speed power comes from stored energy in pressure differential so it will be for a limited amount of time than blackbird will be above wind speed not indefinitely as claimed. Blackbird or the Zeppelin can not use any energy from the tail wind when vehicle speed is above that tail wind speed. --- End quote --- 1. Both the Zeppelin and the Blackbird are "vehicles" with the same propeller design. 2. Both the Zeppelin and the Blackbird are powered by the energy of the tail wind only. 3. The Blackbird can go faster than the speed of the tail wind (based on the experiments we have seen). 4. Based on the above the Zeppelin should fly faster than the speed of the tail wind.. :phew: |
| Kleinstein:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 02, 2021, 09:18:58 pm --- --- Quote from: imo on September 02, 2021, 09:09:16 pm ---How could the Blackbird's propeller take the power from the wheels? Where the "power of the wheels" comes from? For both Zeppelin and Blackbird the only source of energy I can see is the tail wind.. --- End quote --- Yes exactly the right question. Below wind speed power at the wheel comes from wind and above wind speed power comes from stored energy in pressure differential so it will be for a limited amount of time than blackbird will be above wind speed not indefinitely as claimed. Blackbird or the Zeppelin can not use any energy from the tail wind when vehicle speed is above that tail wind speed. --- End quote --- The red part is repeated over and over again as an argument, but it is plain wrong. Not so obvious, but still wrong. The question if it is possible to gain energy from the wind when going faster is not an easy one and the big quitestion of the discussion here. Even if it would be true, you could not use in the discussion - it is the question to decide. Using this as ana argument makes it a circular conclusion. So there is no need to repeat it, it just does not count as an argument. The backbird uses the energy of the wind, but in a tricky way. Not directly as a simple sail. The wheels dirve the prop and the prop drives the vehicle relative to the air. The question that remains is if (and under which conditions) the wheels can generate enough power from the given thrust (force) of the propeller to power the propeller. With more power from the wheels the vehicle can go faster than the wind, with less power it can not - at least not in this way. The result may be confusing, but the math is simple: The power needed by the prop to generate a fixed amount of thrust is independent of the wind speed. The power the generator can produce is force times speed. The speed is wind-speed plus a little from the movement in the air. Plot the two in a graph (X= speed relative to ground, Y = power) and the result is clear: Given enough wind speed the generator can produce more power than the prop needs to pull it. The calculation is steady state and thus no need for stored energy. |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Labrat101 on September 02, 2021, 09:38:25 pm ---Just like the convener belt . It has more questions than answers . Bit like the riddle .. Have a 2 meter round pond with a Frog dead in the middle, How far does the frog have to jump to leave the pond area ??? . . Well . no prize for getting it right @ yes I understand or what you are Getting at . Oh and a spring is kinetic energy a propeller is not .. Forget the the conveyor you are confusing yourself and thinking on the wrong lines . nice drawing .. But does not prove any thing sorry you have missed the real concept as i did try to explain how it works but .. maybe in another life time --- End quote --- The reason propeller was replace by a wheel is because people think propeller is something magic and not a wheel for air. Also some do not understand what air is "magic again" so the Motor wheel is a perfect analogy to propeller and the spring while obviously not the same as pressure differential it will emulate that perfectly. Air is a compressible material so it will act as a spring or rubber band or any sort of other elastic thing you can think of. When I ask how is the Blackbird vehicle powered when vehicle is above wind speed the answer from Rick the creator and Derek is that propeller is powered by the wheel. But such an explanation is absurd at best since what they claim is over-unity. When you are above wind speed and you break the wheel to generate energy for propeller then that energy will come from the vehicle kinetic energy and if you do not put all that back then your vehicle speed will drop. And no the fact that there is a difference in speed between the vehicle and air is not helping when vehicle speed i higher than air speed. When vehicle is below wind speed the delta in speed will help the vehicle when wind and vehicle speed are equal in ideal case there is nothing to gain but when vehicle speed is above wind speed due to the direction of the delta it actually opposing the vehicle moving forward so the reverse of being helpful. Thus my diagram removes all the magic and people here still thing that vehicle in that first diagram (no spring) can move from left to right when that is clearly not possible as generator wheel powers the motor wheel and so breaking energy will be higher than motor thrust energy thus vehicle will move backwards right to left in that drawing. |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Kleinstein on September 02, 2021, 10:26:09 pm --- --- Quote from: electrodacus on September 02, 2021, 09:18:58 pm --- Blackbird or the Zeppelin can not use any energy from the tail wind when vehicle speed is above that tail wind speed. --- End quote --- The red part is repeated over and over again as an argument, but it is plain wrong. Not so obvious, but still wrong. --- End quote --- The red part is not wrong and there is no trick to make that right as if it was to be right it will violate the conservation of energy. You always mention force when force has nothing to do with conservation of energy. You only care about power and since propeller is powered by the wheel generator the power you take from the wheel is the most in ideal case you put in the propeller. In real world propeller output may be just 70% of what is available at the wheel so without stored energy the vehicle could never exceed wind speed. Because of this misconception you also think that the wheel only vehicle in my diagram can move from left to right when that is not possible and you will never be able to prove something impossible. But yes you can make changes to my diagram like that dragged paper instead of treadmill and claim they are equivalent when they are not even close to be equivalent. So first person to show a video where a treadmill is used (even one made out of paper) and shows the vehicle able to move from left to right gets $1000 from me. And since I'm generous I will still offer $100 if you show what relay happens vehicle drives backwards with the treadmill but forward with a piece of paper. I just do not want to spend the time to buy the supplies I will need to do that video myself plus is more credible coming from one of you. |
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