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Mess with your minds: A wind powered craft going faster than a tail wind speed.

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electrodacus:

--- Quote from: imo on September 02, 2021, 10:21:50 pm ---1. Both the Zeppelin and the Blackbird are "vehicles" with the same propeller design.
2. Both the Zeppelin and the Blackbird are powered by the energy of the tail wind only.
3. The Blackbird can go faster than the speed of the tail wind (based on the experiments we have seen).
4. Based on the above the Zeppelin should fly faster than the speed of the tail wind..
 :phew:

--- End quote ---

1. Yes you can add a useless propeller to Zeppelin.
2. No. The blackbird is powered by stored energy also.
3. Yes. But just for a limited amount of time not indefinitely as claimed.
4. No. Since Zeppelin has no wheels touching the ground it can not power the propeller.

PlainName:

--- Quote ---like that dragged paper instead of treadmill and claim they are equivalent when they are not even close to be equivalent
--- End quote ---

You keep saying that but don't say what the difference (an apparently massive difference) is. So... I don't have a treadmill and I can't believe that your magic only works with a treadmill. What other means could be used to prove, or not, your intuition? I think you will need to be quite explicit so no-one can be accused of not doing it quite right. If things need to be a certain way up you need to say that up front.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on September 03, 2021, 12:18:00 am ---
--- Quote ---like that dragged paper instead of treadmill and claim they are equivalent when they are not even close to be equivalent
--- End quote ---

You keep saying that but don't say what the difference (an apparently massive difference) is. So... I don't have a treadmill and I can't believe that your magic only works with a treadmill. What other means could be used to prove, or not, your intuition? I think you will need to be quite explicit so no-one can be accused of not doing it quite right. If things need to be a certain way up you need to say that up front.

--- End quote ---

I think my diagram shows clearly a treadmill and not a flat dragged surface.
Check post #351 and I explained why it is very different yesterday.
The intermediary case b) should make it clear why there is a difference between a) and c)
Treadmill is not moving relative to ground the pushed treadmill is clearly moving relative to ground.

IanB:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 03, 2021, 12:27:37 am ---Treadmill is not moving relative to ground the pushed treadmill is clearly moving relative to ground.

--- End quote ---

In both cases the top surface of the treadmill is moving relative to ground.

IanB:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 03, 2021, 12:08:21 am ---But yes you can make changes to my diagram like that dragged paper instead of treadmill and claim they are equivalent when they are not even close to be equivalent.
--- End quote ---

a treadmill that is not moving relative to the ground
- is a flat surface moving from right to left under the front wheels of the cart, relative to a stationary surface on which the back wheels rest.
a powered off treadmill moved relative to the ground     
- is a flat surface moving from right to left under the front wheels of the cart, relative to a stationary surface on which the back wheels rest.

If you cannot change any of the incorrect green words then the two things are equivalent and you should give up.

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