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Mess with your minds: A wind powered craft going faster than a tail wind speed.
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electrodacus:

--- Quote from: bdunham7 on September 03, 2021, 05:44:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 03, 2021, 05:22:59 pm ---Wall is fixed to the ground so that energy is transferred to earth. When vehicle accelerated it has pushed against earth accelerating the earth in opposite direction then when vehicle hit the wall all that energy was put back in to earth in opposite direction to initial acceleration.
Vehicle had 9Ws of kinetic energy before hitting the wall and 0Ws after. So where do you think that 9Ws disappeared ?

--- End quote ---

Nope!  If you do the math properly, you'll find that the energy transferred to that much larger system is absolutely miniscule.  This is a variant on a standard high-school level physics question that is often initially answered wrongly because the wrong law (conservation of energy) is applied when the correct result is obtained by using the law (conservation of momentum).  So yes, the 9Ws 'disappears', why don't you figure out where it goes.  Or, reflect on the fact that you apparently don't know where it goes.  It's a very basic question.


--- Quote ---You seems to be the one not understanding that force at the wheel (or propeller) is not the same with force against the body of the vehicle.
Think about a gearbox only that is 2:1 ideal so no friction.
I'm on the input side putting 1N and you are at the output side and will need to put 2N so that gearbox is in equilibrium no movement.
have you got the equilibrium part ? There is a huge difference in forces but no movement in any direction.

--- End quote ---

Since you said gearbox, I'll assume you mean newton-meter (torque).  Or you could use a lever example if you like.  In any case, the only reason you imagine that works is because you do not understand the laws of motion.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Now for your gearbox example, indeed the lever-action of the gears will result in no movement, provided the gearbox body is held in place.  Whatever is holding it in place will have to provide 1N/m of torque as a reaction, otherwise the body of the gearbox will just rotate.  If you see an example of unequal forces but no movement, it is because you have not properly accounted for all of the forces.

--- End quote ---

You are hopeless :)
First part with the wall you probably think all of that ends as heat and that is not the case. I get that earth is so large that 9Ws means nothing but you can say that vehicle moved or the wall (entire earth moved).
Think of a very heavy wall but on wheels then you can understand that while wall moved very little because is so much heavier than the vehicle it did moved.

You can imagine any sort of gearbox you want the fact remains the same.  On the vehicle like say the one in my treadmill drawing if that will have had a 2:1 gear box the force at the wheels is not the same with forces acting against the vehicle.
Force you apply to the wheel if wheels are connected trough a chain will be transferred to the chain and not the vehicle body.
Think about those swing-balance you find on playground but imagine one that has an arm longer than the other. To keep that from moving you will need to apply different forces at the end.
The same happens between two wheels connected trough a chain with different gear ration than 1:1  Forces will be different but no motion. 
bdunham7:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 03, 2021, 06:02:28 pm ---First part with the wall you probably think all of that ends as heat and that is not the case. I get that earth is so large that 9Ws means nothing but you can say that vehicle moved or the wall (entire earth moved).
Think of a very heavy wall but on wheels then you can understand that while wall moved very little because is so much heavier than the vehicle it did moved.

--- End quote ---

Well, it could be heat or some other change in the potential energy of the wreckage of the car.  Anyhow, lets say the wall is in fact on frictionless rollers and is very heavy (say 100,000kg).  And presume a completely non-elastic collision. Are you saying that after the collision the 9Ws energy will be found as kinetic energy of the now very slowly moving wall?   |O


--- Quote ---Think about those swing-balance you find on playground but imagine one that has an arm longer than the other. To keep that from moving you will need to apply different forces at the end.
The same happens between two wheels connected trough a chain with different gear ration than 1:1  Forces will be different but no motion.

--- End quote ---

And the fulcrum will supply a reaction force equal to the sum of both forces.  Same for the wheels.  You really are refuting Newton's laws!   :-DD
cgroen:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 03, 2021, 05:27:53 am ---.
If you think you are frustrated try to be in my place where almost nobody understand how basic physics works including people teaching others.
.

--- End quote ---

And that, my dear, is exactly why you should start to question yourself if you in fact are such a supreme person that knows everything MUCH better than ALL OTHER, or, maybe, just maybe, you could be wrong ?
IanB:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 03, 2021, 05:26:30 pm ---Please provide the correct power equation so I can see where I did the mistake.
To get any energy from G wheel the vehicle will need to move backwards (right to left) and putting that generated energy back in to M wheel will be enough in ideal case to bring the vehicle back to original position thus not possible for vehicle to move from left to right.

--- End quote ---

The G wheel is a generator. It only needs to turn on its axle to generate power, it doesn't need to move. Since the belt is moving it can turn the G wheel to generate power without the cart needing to move left or right. The power generated by the G wheel can be transferred to the M wheel, and as noted before, the M wheel can turn clockwise or anti-clockwise at any speed according to gearing. If we gear it to turn clockwise it can move the cart from left to right. With low gearing it can move the cart slowly, and this slow movement will require less power than was generated in the G wheel.
Alex Eisenhut:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 03, 2021, 04:16:15 pm ---
--- Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on September 03, 2021, 04:09:02 pm ---Excellent. How can the G wheel "see" or be influenced by the force/movement/energy/power indicated by the red arrows?

--- End quote ---

Not quite sure you know what you are asking.  Do you notice the two larger black triangles ? Those fix the treadmill to the ground and there will be forces acting against those when vehicle is pushed down from the treadmill.  I guess you can make an analogy with how pulleys work.
The important part is that treadmill is not moving relative to the ground.  If you turn off the treadmill rotation and push the treadmill then it will move relative to the ground and then you can reverse that movement and say that ground moves relative to the treadmill. So it is not the same thing.

--- End quote ---

Don't presume what I know or don't know, you arrogant ass. It was a simple question. Either wheel can or can't "see".

Your prolix responses are quite exhausting to plow through.

Can't you just stick to the question as asked, instead of trailing off on tangents?

Again: How can the G wheel "see" or be influenced by the force/movement/energy/power indicated by the red arrows?

Either it can, so explain the how, or it can't.
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