General > General Technical Chat
Mess with your minds: A wind powered craft going faster than a tail wind speed.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Brumby on September 19, 2021, 01:41:07 am ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 18, 2021, 08:50:07 pm ---1. Sorry but how can you say there is no energy storage when is so clear seen in video and is clear to see the stretching of the rubber belt.
--- End quote ---
Here is a classic example of YOU not understanding physics.
The jerkiness of motion as seen in your video is the direct cause of friction in your system. You are taking a practical experiment - with all its flaws - and creating a theoretical model based on a completely wrong interpretation.
Remove the friction and it will run smoothly. Use an inelastic chain and it will run smoothly, too. In the ideal scenario, there is NO energy storage, just energy transfer. Your demonstration is nowhere near ideal.
You are only compounding the lack of understanding you have in physics. You are making it very clear that you are either a troll or the epitome of Dunning-Kruger.
--- End quote ---
What are you claiming exactly ?
a) belt is not an energy storage device ?
b) energy storage is not needed for the vehicle to move ?
c) something else ?
Psi:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 19, 2021, 01:53:55 am ---It maters what is the input and what is the output.
Is like looking at the gear box input and output power and saying if you look from this side efficiency is 90% but if you look from this other side is over 100%
Do you understand what I'm trying to say ?
--- End quote ---
yes, I understand what you mean now. It does matter which is wind and which is ground.
But I still think the demonstration shows how blackbird can move downwind faster than the wind.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Psi on September 19, 2021, 02:11:37 am ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on September 19, 2021, 01:53:55 am ---It maters what is the input and what is the output.
Is like looking at the gear box input and output power and saying if you look from this side efficiency is 90% but if you look from this other side is over 100%
Do you understand what I'm trying to say ?
--- End quote ---
yes, I understand what you mean now. It does matter which is wind and which is ground.
But I still think the demonstration shows how blackbird can move downwind faster than the wind.
--- End quote ---
That demonstration is just a linear gear box and if it is to show something is blackbird version that travels against the wind direction (not the same as the one driving down wind as is a different vehicle). It shows vehicle traveling 2.8x slower than the wind in the opposite to wind direction.
And to be clear I never claimed that blackbird can not travel faster than the wind I just mentioned that it needs energy storage to do that and that means it can only travel above wind speed for a limited amount of time then it will slow down below wind speed.
electrodacus:
I mentioned a few times the stick slip but I do not think that is needed just the energy storage is enough as I do not think any wheel is losing traction at any point in my video.
The thing is that power is provided to the vehicle by the moving paper and if there was no energy storage then either back or front wheel will slip before having any rotation. Rotation of the front wheel is only possible tanks to energy storage and when enough energy is stored vehicle can move forward (left to right).
I looked a bit at the numbers and yes there is stick slip on the back wheels.
Psi:
A good demo might be
- Toroidal pipe, maybe 4inch diameter and 1m toroid radius.
- Angled air in/out tubes to get known air flow moving around the tube.
- Small cart with propeller and ball bearing wheels touching 3 or 4 sides of the tube. (so it can move freely around the toroid)
- Could test with water or air flowing around the tube, water might make coupling/gearing easier to show the effect.
- The relationship of air flow into tube and speed of cart around toroid should be very different if the effect happens vs does not happen.
It seems that most peoples arguments against the results of blackbird are that the wind was going faster than stated.
So this would allow windspeed to be known/measurable
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