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Mess with your minds: A wind powered craft going faster than a tail wind speed.
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fourfathom:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 10, 2021, 11:26:16 pm ---If someone suggested you take energy from back wheel and power the front wheel it will have been considered stupid (by most not all)
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Yes, that would be stupid.

--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 10, 2021, 11:26:16 pm ---but suggesting taking power and supplying a propeller is even worse if you exclude that energy storage in pressure differential that nobody seems to understand.
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Well, somebody doesn't understand, and it's you.  There is no speed difference between the road and the road.  There is a speed difference between the wind and the road.
electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Kleinstein on December 10, 2021, 11:26:38 pm ---The wind power the vehicle and thus the wheels. The power from the wind is given as thrust from the propeller times speed of the wind.

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That wind power can be all used to accelerate your vehicle or you can take part of it and diverted to some other purpose.
But if you take say half that power and put it in to propeller then there is no net gain as far as acceleration go as it is better to just put that power in say front wheel as wheel is more efficient than a propeller.
But anyone (almost) suggesting taking power from back wheel and putting that in front wheel will realize how useless it is.



--- Quote from: Kleinstein on December 10, 2021, 11:26:38 pm ---For the math it does not matter if one has a motor or generator. Esepcially wheels and gears work in both directions. In the examples generator power was fixed positive and there is no porblem ignoring the possible extra power in case 1, it works without it too.
Whether one uses (v-w) or (w-v) is only a question of the direction of the force, so it depends which side of the balance to look at.
The case B is very easy: one needs no power to stop the motor. So here zero power for the motor is obvious.

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A motor or generator not connected to anything will spin freely so any attempt to take energy from generator wheel will result in vehicle moving backwards.
And all that energy generated putted back in the motor wheel will just bring you back from where you left.
electrodacus:

--- Quote from: fourfathom on December 10, 2021, 11:42:23 pm ---Well, somebody doesn't understand, and it's you.  There is no speed difference between the road and the road.  There is a speed difference between the wind and the road.

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Well yes that is what I showed in my 3 examples.
That difference at case C is not helping you so it will be even worse that putting that energy in the front wheel.
Kleinstein:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 10, 2021, 11:51:13 pm ---
--- Quote from: fourfathom on December 10, 2021, 11:42:23 pm ---Well, somebody doesn't understand, and it's you.  There is no speed difference between the road and the road.  There is a speed difference between the wind and the road.

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Well yes that is what I showed in my 3 examples.
That difference at case C is not helping you so it will be even worse that putting that energy in the front wheel.

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The 3 examples really show a lack of understanding.
electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Kleinstein on December 11, 2021, 09:10:25 am ---The 3 examples really show a lack of understanding.

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Are you saying that wrong formula was applied ?
If so please provide yours for all 3 cases.
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