General > General Technical Chat
Mess with your minds: A wind powered craft going faster than a tail wind speed.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Labrat101 on December 18, 2021, 10:18:04 am ---@electrodacus
A Bumblebee can't fly .!!
Same as electrodacus can't believe a simple
Solution. That if everyone says the 🌎 is round .
He would argue its flat because my spirit level says so .. :palm:
So if everyone here has proven it does work .
Plus there has been a video showing it works
. There for Bumblebee can fly also faster the tail wind .
Your ideas of what is true and false , was is, and what can .
Maybe beyond your comprehension .
It wouldn't matter if Albert Einstein could tell you that your wrong .
You are living in some sort of self denial.
Get over it and except that it can and does work.
--- End quote ---
Solution is not simple and I never believe anything I need to understand.
All works as shown in tests and is fully described by my theory.
On the other hand the equations you proposed do not predict what happens in real tests.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Brumby on December 18, 2021, 12:50:58 pm ---
No, it's not. Your motor and generator are operating at the same speed - but the the two sides of the Blackbird mechanism are not.
--- End quote ---
Most of those have a different gear ratio so no they do not operate at the same speed and they will still not work.
--- Quote from: Brumby on December 18, 2021, 12:50:58 pm ---Yes, there will be a reduced efficiency in the power extracted from the wheels through to the propeller - but the propeller is pushing against the wind. With the blackbird travelling at wind speed, the wind will appear as a stationary wall of air - and THIS is what the propeller is pushing against. <== IMPORTANT POINT!
Warning: The following uses terms like power and energy in a conversational style - NOT an engineering one! Change the words as you see fit - but follow the intent.
- Let's say wind speed is 20 km/h
- Power is extracted from the wheels which are rotating at a tangential speed of 20km/h
- This power is transferred through a gearbox to rotate a propeller. (The ratio of the gearing is important here - which includes propeller characteristics.)
- The propeller then pushes against a wall of air that appears to be stationary ( 0 km/h ) from the perspective of the vehicle.
In short, energy is extracted from a 20km/h input and is applied to an output working against a 0 km/h reference.
The extracted energy will cause a drop in speed, but the additional thrust will cause an increase. Finding the equilibrium point is the trick. Is is below wind speed? Is it above? Is it equal to wind speed?
--- End quote ---
:)
Clearly shows you do not understand power and energy. 20km/h ~ 5.5m/s
If you take 5.5W form the wheel (1N * 5.5m/s) and put all that in to propeller (ideal case) the most propeller can output is 5.5W thus no acceleration possible even in ideal case.
The gear ratio is irrelevant since you can still not output more power than you input.
This is exactly what others including Derek will try to say it is so silly I do not even know what to say. Luckily there are people that understand all this they just seems to be unwilling to waste time with you (all).
If you think with a 5.5W input the propeller can output more then I have a free energy generator for sale.
Kleinstein:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 18, 2021, 06:31:44 pm ---Clearly shows you do not understand power and energy. 20km/h ~ 5.5m/s
If you take 5.5W form the wheel (1N * 5.5m/s) and put all that in to propeller (ideal case) the most propeller can output is 5.5W thus no acceleration possible even in ideal case.
The gear ratio is irrelevant since you can still not output more power than you input.
This is exactly what others including Derek will try to say it is so silly I do not even know what to say. Luckily there are people that understand all this they just seems to be unwilling to waste time with you (all).
If you think with a 5.5W input the propeller can output more then I have a free energy generator for sale.
--- End quote ---
The gear ratio is very relevant, as it determines how much thrust / force the propeller will produce. With a good gear ratio propeller can create more than 1 N of thrust from the given 5.5 W. This is possible as the prop sees essentially standing air. 1 N at zero relative speed is zero ouput power from the prop.
What is a "free" energy generator good for that can create 0 W when the wind is blowing. There is quite some energy taken from the wind.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Kleinstein on December 18, 2021, 07:09:10 pm ---The gear ratio is very relevant, as it determines how much thrust / force the propeller will produce. With a good gear ratio propeller can create more than 1 N of thrust from the given 5.5 W. This is possible as the prop sees essentially standing air. 1 N at zero relative speed is zero ouput power from the prop.
What is a "free" energy generator good for that can create 0 W when the wind is blowing. There is quite some energy taken from the wind.
--- End quote ---
When you take 5.5W say for 1 second then that 5.5Ws (5.5J) energy will be subtracted from the vehicle kinetic energy and since kinetic energy is proportional to speed speed will also be reduced.
Now all you have is this 5.5Ws (5.5J) and no matter what gear ratio you have you can not deliver more than the same 5.5J to the vehicle kinetic energy assuming ideal case.
So yes you can have a gearbox with say 2:1 ratio so input is 5.5m/s 1N and output can be 2.75m/s at 2N it will still only put back 5.5Ws (5.5J) in the vehicle kinetic energy since gear box is not magic and can not output higher power than it has available at the input.
So you just get confused as you do not use the correct speeds in your equations like Derek subtracting wind speed from vehicle speed (ridiculous).
Kleinstein:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 18, 2021, 07:37:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: Kleinstein on December 18, 2021, 07:09:10 pm ---The gear ratio is very relevant, as it determines how much thrust / force the propeller will produce. With a good gear ratio propeller can create more than 1 N of thrust from the given 5.5 W. This is possible as the prop sees essentially standing air. 1 N at zero relative speed is zero ouput power from the prop.
What is a "free" energy generator good for that can create 0 W when the wind is blowing. There is quite some energy taken from the wind.
--- End quote ---
When you take 5.5W say for 1 second then that 5.5Ws (5.5J) energy will be subtracted from the vehicle kinetic energy and since kinetic energy is proportional to speed speed will also be reduced.
Now all you have is this 5.5Ws (5.5J) and no matter what gear ratio you have you can not deliver more than the same 5.5J to the vehicle kinetic energy assuming ideal case.
So yes you can have a gearbox with say 2:1 ratio so input is 5.5m/s 1N and output can be 2.75m/s at 2N it will still only put back 5.5Ws (5.5J) in the vehicle kinetic energy since gear box is not magic and can not output higher power than it has available at the input.
So you just get confused as you do not use the correct speeds in your equations like Derek subtracting wind speed from vehicle speed (ridiculous).
--- End quote ---
The gear box does not increase the power, but the prop or wheels on the treadmill work relative to a different speed. Because of the lower speed the gear box can reduce the speed so much to generate more than 1 N ( e.g. 2 N). With 2 N of force to drive the vehicle forward and 1 N of force to work against it, there would be still 1 N going forward and thus an increase in speed. It is the force that decides which way the vehicle moves, not the power.
The gain in power is from slowing down the wind with those 2 N. 2 N pushing against the 5.5 m/s wind is a power source of 11 W and thus plenty of power. It is not free energy, but energy taken from the wind.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version